Dave Unfiltered: How to Market Like You Give a Damn, Pick a Lane, plus Breakfast Ideas (and more)

Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt Show.

Dave [0:00:02]: Hey, It's Dave.

Dave [0:00:17]: This episode little different episode mail back episode solo.

Dave [0:00:21]: Just me.

Dave [0:00:21]: They just locked me here in a conference room.

Dave [0:00:24]: I got a bunch of questions from Exit Five members in our community about marketing trends, conferences, strategy, what I eat for breakfast.

Dave [0:00:33]: What I do for fun outside of B2B marketing.

Dave [0:00:36]: I answered them all.

Dave [0:00:37]: I did.

Dave [0:00:38]: I answered them all.

Dave [0:00:38]: I have no voice left.

Dave [0:00:39]: I have no energy left.

Dave [0:00:40]: I answered all the questions in the community here in this mail bag episode plus Listen all the way to the end because I have an important call to action for you as a listener of this podcast.

Dave [0:00:49]: If you could just listen there and send us a note.

Dave [0:00:51]: That'd be awesome.

Dave [0:00:52]: Alright.

Dave [0:00:52]: Here it is Mail bag, Ama episode with questions from Exit Five.

Dave [0:00:56]: Alright, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to an episode of the Exit Five podcast My name is Dave Care.

Dave [0:01:01]: I'm the founder of Exit Five.

Dave [0:01:03]: exitfive.com.

Dave [0:01:05]: Ask your favorite Ll l I'm about it.

Dave [0:01:07]: I'm here by myself in this little conference room here in the c working space that I'm at.

Dave [0:01:12]: The team has asked me we had an idea, or, maybe I yes.

Dave [0:01:15]: That classic ego thing.

Dave [0:01:16]: We wanna do a little mail bag episode.

Dave [0:01:18]: Just something different, No guest.

Dave [0:01:20]: Just Dave.

Dave [0:01:21]: I got a bunch of questions from the Exit Five community, and I'm gonna just sit here and answer him I'll share my screen real quick and I can actually pull this up.

Dave [0:01:30]: So got a bunch of questions about all types of things here in the community.

Dave [0:01:34]: Let's get it.

Dave [0:01:36]: Okay.

Dave [0:01:36]: Here we go.

Dave [0:01:36]: This gonna be a rapid fire.

Dave [0:01:37]: I'm gonna see if I can answer all of these questions hopefully, the team can edit me down to, you know, make it feel tight and concise, but let's do this.

Dave [0:01:46]: I'm recording this first week of October.

Dave [0:01:48]: So here we are.

Dave [0:01:49]: Okay.

Dave [0:01:50]: This question is from Eddie.

Dave [0:01:51]: And I mentioned this here, I said, I'll, you know, talk about bullshit about anything.

Dave [0:01:54]: And Eddie said, how does one about anything seriously let's say you're on a podcast and the host asks a strange question.

Dave [0:02:00]: You weren't prepared for or just don't care about.

Dave [0:02:02]: Is there a rule slash process you follow to answer without skipping a beat.

Dave [0:02:06]: Look, I'm gonna say this for all these…

Dave [0:02:08]: These are, like, my opinions.

Dave [0:02:09]: Right?

Dave [0:02:10]: I don't know what you feel in these moments I have never had a problem with if someone asked me a question that I don't have an answer to it I don't know.

Dave [0:02:16]: I've had no problem just saying, like, I don't know that or I don't wanna answer that.

Dave [0:02:20]: It's not awkward to me.

Dave [0:02:21]: I don't know at this point, I'm approaching forty.

Dave [0:02:24]: I got a nice life.

Dave [0:02:25]: I got kids that love me.

Dave [0:02:27]: My wife love me.

Dave [0:02:28]: I got a good relationship with my family.

Dave [0:02:29]: I like to read workout.

Dave [0:02:31]: My mental space is good.

Dave [0:02:32]: There's nothing you could ask me really, that's gonna send me into a place.

Dave [0:02:36]: And so I'm happy to just…

Dave [0:02:37]: You know, if it was a strange question.

Dave [0:02:39]: I'm gonna either take a beat and say, hey.

Dave [0:02:41]: I need a second to actually think about a response there or I'm gonna be okay with not answering it.

Dave [0:02:46]: So I know.

Dave [0:02:47]: I think it's some level Eddie of just, like, not really giving a shit.

Dave [0:02:49]: Like, I do give a shit, but I don't.

Dave [0:02:51]: And I know you, and I think you could apply some of that same type of energy.

Dave [0:02:54]: I think, also, The other thing is just realizing that, like, what are the stakes really?

Dave [0:02:58]: Like, what are we really doing?

Dave [0:02:59]: Right?

Dave [0:02:59]: We're on a planet that we have no control over.

Dave [0:03:02]: I'm sitting in a on a podcast being interviewed about marketing?

Dave [0:03:05]: Like, in the grand scheme of life, What is the real big deal about answering or not answering this person's question.

Dave [0:03:12]: I just…

Dave [0:03:13]: I think about a lot of things in life through that lens.

Dave [0:03:15]: That's also why I have no problem answering because what are we really doing here is how I think about that, And I such Chelsea second that.

Dave [0:03:21]: Okay?

Dave [0:03:22]: Diane, how many rounds of sit.

Dave [0:03:24]: So, Diane?

Dave [0:03:24]: We worked out together at a bulk Drive and knew she is gonna throw in a workout question here.

Dave [0:03:28]: How many rounds of Cindy is your record for anybody who doesn't know Cindy is a classic crossfit workout.

Dave [0:03:34]: I think the proper one is as many rounds as possible in twenty minutes, you do five pull ups, ten push ups and fifteen squats.

Dave [0:03:42]: So I don't know Diane, but I did after Drive actually Saturday morning.

Dave [0:03:47]: I didn't Cindy and I hadn't done it in a while, and I got fourteen rounds.

Dave [0:03:51]: I wasn't really moving.

Dave [0:03:53]: It was constant movement.

Dave [0:03:54]: I wasn't going super fast.

Dave [0:03:55]: I'm just good at pull ups push ups and squats.

Dave [0:03:58]: And then I do five strict pull ups because I'm not good at kip.

Dave [0:04:01]: So fourteen is my recent record.

Dave [0:04:04]: Am I a fast walker or a slow walker.

Dave [0:04:06]: I'm a fast walker.

Dave [0:04:08]: I like to get my steps in, but Leah says that I walk, like, I have a side that you don't wanna be on my right side because I guess I walk kind crooked this way.

Dave [0:04:17]: And so my daughter's is noticing this now to She's like.

Dave [0:04:19]: I'm on your bad side.

Dave [0:04:20]: So you gotta be on that side of me.

Dave [0:04:22]: How do you protect creative time?

Dave [0:04:24]: And what does that look like for you now?

Dave [0:04:25]: I have a lot of time.

Dave [0:04:27]: I'm very fortunate and that we've built a really cool business.

Dave [0:04:30]: I have a great business partner, Dan, who's the CEO of Exit Five.

Dave [0:04:33]: And, you know, he's running the company day to day.

Dave [0:04:36]: And so we've created a schedule that allows me to be…

Dave [0:04:39]: I don't really have a lot of things on my calendar, and I have no problem saying that.

Dave [0:04:42]: And that's on purpose because The role that I play in Exit Five is I'm very much like managing editor.

Dave [0:04:48]: You know, they want me to sit around with a cup of coffee and Slack open and reading our emails.

Dave [0:04:54]: Listen to our podcast.

Dave [0:04:55]: Jamming on webinar ideas working with sponsor copy.

Dave [0:04:59]: Being around as a resource.

Dave [0:05:01]: And so selfish officially, it's my company of created of the role that I want.

Dave [0:05:04]: I didn't wanna be CEO managing the day to day operations of the company luckily Dan is great at that and loves that stuff and and is a good partner for me there.

Dave [0:05:12]: And so most of my day is creative time.

Dave [0:05:14]: I don't take a lot of meetings, and so that's kind of the one of the ways that I protect that time, but then also for me, I just know a lot about myself and the way that I can be creative as I need to work out.

Dave [0:05:23]: I do that every day anyway.

Dave [0:05:25]: To work out in the morning, if I have meetings or calls, they're usually after say eleven o'clock in the morning, and so I pretty much have at least every day from eight Am to eleven Am open for free, creative writing time, working time doing doing things like recording this podcast.

Dave [0:05:42]: What's one mistake you made?

Dave [0:05:44]: This is four questions, but she's a homie.

Dave [0:05:46]: So we'll give it to her What's one mistake you made while growing this community, you wish you could redo.

Dave [0:05:52]: I mean, there's so many mistakes, and I think that's totally okay.

Dave [0:05:56]: I don't have one like, critical, crucial one.

Dave [0:05:59]: There hasn't been one.

Dave [0:05:59]: You just I believe that you get a lot of that bats.

Dave [0:06:02]: And if you ship things regularly, you get lots of feedback and ideas, and I changed my mind all the time, which I think is a gift and a curse.

Dave [0:06:09]: I think it's mostly a gift because it means I don't really…

Dave [0:06:12]: Okay.

Dave [0:06:12]: Cool.

Dave [0:06:13]: We did something people didn't like it.

Dave [0:06:14]: Go again.

Dave [0:06:15]: Like, we have another app at the next day the next week.

Dave [0:06:17]: Early on, mistake was probably just having the community in Facebook and then migrating to circle and then now we have, like, an executive tier on Slack.

Dave [0:06:28]: That part kinda sucks, but I see the questions all time it's, like, we're never happy with the tools we have.

Dave [0:06:32]: It's like, if I'm on Hubspot, I'm looking for something else.

Dave [0:06:35]: If I'm using this tool I'm looking for something else.

Dave [0:06:37]: And so that's one mistake.

Dave [0:06:38]: And then I don't know, Diane.

Dave [0:06:40]: I really genuinely believe this is not me bullshit.

Dave [0:06:42]: But I believe that every mistake like leads to the learning opportunity, and so we're much more focused on director, VP, CMO, to in house to the S of a lot of people, solo marketers, contractors, freelancers, people, agency people they you know, they take it as a personal site that we're focused on that, but we've just learned This is I'm a product builder building a company, and we've learned that the sweet spot where we can provide the most value where people get the most value out of it is for an in house marketer, and so we've I think you can appreciate this given your business diane.

Dave [0:07:13]: Like, we've really narrowed in on our Ic.

Dave [0:07:15]: And I think that only happens over time.

Dave [0:07:18]: We're going on year five of now doing this as Exit Five, and you just constantly get feedback and learn and tweak.

Dave [0:07:23]: And, you know, why does every company of all time like, go up market and find a different Ic from where you started.

Dave [0:07:29]: That's where we're going?

Dave [0:07:30]: I don't think that's a mistake, but it's something that we're doing and we're learning.

Dave [0:07:33]: Okay.

Dave [0:07:34]: Lindsay, o'brien.

Dave [0:07:35]: What's up, Lindsay.

Dave [0:07:37]: If Dan fired you tomorrow, would you do another founder thing, go back to in house marketing or some else.

Dave [0:07:43]: Now, I realize this is a joke.

Dave [0:07:44]: Dan can't fire me surprise.

Dave [0:07:46]: I'm in charge.

Dave [0:07:47]: I'm Dan's boss.

Dave [0:07:48]: Dan, I love you if you're listening to this Does he listen to pod.

Dave [0:07:50]: I don't know.

Dave [0:07:51]: But I'm the boss, so he can't fire me.

Dave [0:07:53]: He could get mad at me, but you can't fire me.

Dave [0:07:55]: So the question would be, if I decided to fire myself or if I, you know, was involved in some big scandal or something like, if you know, a pretty boring person.

Dave [0:08:05]: When I do another founder thing, go back to in house marketing or something else, I think I would do the founder thing.

Dave [0:08:12]: I have realized this about myself.

Dave [0:08:15]: It relates to a lot of things that I'm good at in marketing.

Dave [0:08:17]: I like creating.

Dave [0:08:18]: I think that I'm gonna be doing some type of creating in business, whether that's online in person, you know, buying and redoing a bookstore, like Ryan Holiday, starting a podcast and being the next Tim Ferris, whatever the twenty twenty six seven version of that is…

Dave [0:08:35]: I think I'd like the creative stuff.

Dave [0:08:37]: But I also have realized through Exit Five, I really like working with the team.

Dave [0:08:40]: And so I think that would be a key thing here.

Dave [0:08:42]: You know, I think if I were to go back in house, it would have to be a really cool and exciting and unique opportunity.

Dave [0:08:49]: But I like being in charge.

Dave [0:08:50]: I like I like being the founder.

Dave [0:08:52]: Alright This one's from Caitlin.

Dave [0:08:54]: Hey, Dave, here's one.

Dave [0:08:56]: I believe that brand is an incredible asset that's worth investing in and that it's a true differentiator and trust builder in the age of Ai.

Dave [0:09:02]: Amen.

Dave [0:09:03]: Companies and especially startups are being asked to deliver mind bending growth numbers, what's the balance between incredible brand building, no immediate ROI campaigns in the more conventional bottom of the funnel stuff.

Dave [0:09:14]: So she's curious how you'd think about it and I said look, answer more on the pod, but I actually don't think there's a secret here.

Dave [0:09:20]: One of the challenges, like, I get this question all the time, and I think, we always think it has to be either or, and I think this is, like, the duality of man or the duality of woman.

Dave [0:09:28]: You can do both.

Dave [0:09:29]: I think when I read between the lines here, it's really how do you justify spending money on something that doesn't directly relate to sales.

Dave [0:09:36]: Right?

Dave [0:09:37]: Because, ultimately, you know this in your heart?

Dave [0:09:39]: If you could just do it, You'd go do it.

Dave [0:09:41]: I own Exit Five, We've made a bunch of decisions that don't directly connect to revenue today, but are now, and I don't have to answer to a board or a CEO or anyone else And so it's like yeah, of course, we're gonna go spend, you know, hundred grand and do that thing.

Dave [0:09:55]: So I think if I could be helpful in answering this question, I would say, usually, the way you solve this problem inside of a company is you have to show them like, how people buy from you, show the CEO and CFO, how people buy from you, how they make decisions.

Dave [0:10:08]: And you have to give them a vision for how you're doing marketing as a company.

Dave [0:10:11]: And typically, when you have not shown them a vision.

Dave [0:10:14]: Like, here is our vision.

Dave [0:10:15]: Here's our strategy.

Dave [0:10:16]: Here's how we're doing marketing.

Dave [0:10:17]: Now they have a frame to think about.

Dave [0:10:19]: Okay.

Dave [0:10:19]: So that means we're gonna do things like some of these brand building things because we need to get people to know us like us and trust us.

Dave [0:10:25]: We're also gonna do all these shorter term, like direct response channels, but we're gonna do these things.

Dave [0:10:29]: And here's, you know, three examples of brands you probably know.

Dave [0:10:32]: Like, did Nike only do direct response advertising, no.

Dave [0:10:35]: They did this, and they did this.

Dave [0:10:36]: So I think it's some level of, like, the way I would try to answer that questions by having a strong opinion on how our company should do marketing.

Dave [0:10:43]: Right?

Dave [0:10:43]: I work out of this great building in Vermont called Hula.

Dave [0:10:46]: If Hula only did, you know, short term direct response thing to Drive new members.

Dave [0:10:51]: They would not Drive new members.

Dave [0:10:52]: You can only advertise on Facebook so much, But, you know, they're doing things like being active in the community.

Dave [0:10:56]: They're hosting events, they have interesting people here sharing their stories or doing random things.

Dave [0:11:01]: Sometimes that don't have a direct map to ROI.

Dave [0:11:03]: You need to be able to do those things and you have to be able to talk about that as part of the strategy.

Dave [0:11:08]: And this why question is from Matt.

Dave [0:11:10]: I've read some of these, but there's new ones that I haven't read.

Dave [0:11:12]: So I'm doing this truly all in the flight.

Dave [0:11:14]: Matthew says, curious what your thoughts are on Ai outbound Bd art.

Dave [0:11:19]: Where have you seen it work well?

Dave [0:11:20]: I think we've all been the beneficiary of the not so good version.

Dave [0:11:23]: Yeah.

Dave [0:11:25]: I don't know, man.

Dave [0:11:26]: Outbound has always been tough because there's this whole, like, you know, people love to go on Linkedin and post like, this is the worst…

Dave [0:11:32]: Look at this awful email that I get.

Dave [0:11:34]: And I still get them.

Dave [0:11:35]: I get automated emails from, you know, some data services out there still think that I'm the CMO at Privy, which doesn't exist anymore as part of attentive or I'm the marketing guy at Drift, which doesn't exist…

Dave [0:11:45]: I still get it, like, leads for drift.

Dave [0:11:47]: I still get those emails.

Dave [0:11:48]: So I don't know.

Dave [0:11:49]: I think that the only real measure of outbound is, like, is it working in your company.

Dave [0:11:53]: For me.

Dave [0:11:54]: It doesn't matter if it's Ai or a human.

Dave [0:11:55]: It's like, Is there a y you…

Dave [0:11:58]: I learned from this guy John Burrows years ago.

Dave [0:12:00]: I love this thing he, you know, why y now.

Dave [0:12:02]: And so if if you're outbound me, it's the y y now.

Dave [0:12:05]: And whether it's Ai or a human, a lot of that is just typically either too long, too much information, not enough information.

Dave [0:12:13]: There's just that same kind of spray and pray.

Dave [0:12:15]: So I think just because it's Ai doesn't matter to me.

Dave [0:12:18]: How do you match up, like, why are you trying to sell to me.

Dave [0:12:21]: Why me?

Dave [0:12:21]: Why now?

Dave [0:12:22]: I don't know.

Dave [0:12:23]: Don't really have a great bet answer to that.

Dave [0:12:26]: I think we've all been the beneficiary of the…

Dave [0:12:28]: Yeah.

Dave [0:12:28]: Can…

Dave [0:12:28]: Here's my thing.

Dave [0:12:29]: Let me put this out there in the world.

Dave [0:12:31]: Side rant.

Dave [0:12:32]: If you have a Linkedin account, there are some people at this.

Dave [0:12:35]: Why do we waste so much time calling out examples of shitty emails, people who cares?

Dave [0:12:40]: Like, I would never…

Dave [0:12:41]: I maybe not never.

Dave [0:12:42]: I probably done it.

Dave [0:12:43]: I'm a my hypo.

Dave [0:12:44]: Right.

Dave [0:12:44]: But why would I waste one of my valuable Linkedin slots to complain about some shitty emails someone sent me I'm not gonna do that.

Dave [0:12:51]: Okay.

Dave [0:12:52]: Saw for last thirty years I've been dying to know who let the dogs out?

Dave [0:12:56]: Great question.

Dave [0:12:57]: I said I think it was Dm.

Dave [0:12:58]: A tier says what's the most underrated marketing investment a team can make today that will pay value profit at dividends a year or later from now.

Dave [0:13:09]: Okay.

Dave [0:13:10]: I'll give you my answer here.

Dave [0:13:11]: Is called giving a shit.

Dave [0:13:13]: Maybe it's two giving a shit and having empathy, Giving a shit is, like, I think everyone's in a rush to automate things and do the thing with Chat, but I think the truly way to do great marketing to actually give a shit.

Dave [0:13:25]: Like, to be mailchimp and realize their customers love their product and to find customers who have cats and someone hand knit hat for the cat, and they made it in this whole viral campaign, or to truly treat your marketing with care with craft with respect to, you know, the copy and the outbound email matters.

Dave [0:13:42]: The ads matter.

Dave [0:13:43]: Just…

Dave [0:13:44]: I think there's a very still much a layer of, like, oh, great.

Dave [0:13:47]: We can set it and forget it.

Dave [0:13:48]: Can automate all this stuff.

Dave [0:13:49]: So therefore, we don't really care about it versus I don't know the way I sit down when I have to write an email to my kids school.

Dave [0:13:55]: There's a lot of, you know, thought and energy an effort that goes into that because I have to walk into that school and show my face to my kid's teacher or whatever.

Dave [0:14:02]: And so if I'm an asshole in that email or I write something sloppy.

Dave [0:14:05]: Like, I feel like that's a reflection on me, I think because of Mart tech and Ai and all this stuff, we've become so dis associated from, like, the actual marketing that doesn't matter.

Dave [0:14:15]: And so we just already care.

Dave [0:14:16]: And then related to that, I always talk about empathy, empathy here, meaning like, Do you ever just think about how many emails you get?

Dave [0:14:23]: Do you ever think about when the last webinar you went to?

Dave [0:14:26]: Which webinar did you actually sign up for and go to, not just get the recording, but actually take an hour out of your day to sit down, not multitask listen and watch and go to?

Dave [0:14:35]: Okay.

Dave [0:14:36]: That's the lens that I wanna use to then go create the webinar we're gonna do.

Dave [0:14:39]: I think that's a really important skill.

Dave [0:14:41]: What's the biggest hype story being pedal in marketing today, it'll brutally be busted in six months from now.

Dave [0:14:46]: I think probably Ai.

Dave [0:14:48]: I think Ai is a bubble, obviously.

Dave [0:14:50]: Both things can be true.

Dave [0:14:51]: It's very useful, but it's a bit of a bubble.

Dave [0:14:53]: I'm not an investor.

Dave [0:14:54]: This is not investment advice.

Dave [0:14:56]: Ant philanthropic lost forty two billion dollars.

Dave [0:14:58]: They said this week.

Dave [0:14:59]: I I mean, I'm not a…

Dave [0:15:00]: I'm no genius.

Dave [0:15:01]: I haven't been on the Inc five thousand list, but, like, we're not losing that much money at if five And finally, are you at Doom day or Doom three kind of person.

Dave [0:15:09]: Neither, I've tried, You can ask me about this, but I keep trying to become a science fiction guy, and it's not doing it for me, And I know everyone says you just haven't found the right book.

Dave [0:15:18]: But I'm a pretty avid reader I read lots of different genres, you know, pretty smart guy I.

Dave [0:15:24]: I I read.

Dave [0:15:25]: And I just can't get…

Dave [0:15:26]: Are those given books?

Dave [0:15:27]: What is this?

Dave [0:15:28]: This is a video game, Doom day or Doom three.

Dave [0:15:30]: Okay.

Dave [0:15:31]: I realized I thought you meant the book Dune.

Dave [0:15:33]: I'm not a video game guy either.

Dave [0:15:35]: I could be, but I'm not.

Dave [0:15:37]: Caitlin said, also what do you eat for breakfast?

Dave [0:15:39]: I'm a scrambled eggs gal, but we've been…

Dave [0:15:41]: Also man.

Dave [0:15:42]: Please send me a message on Linkedin Doom day or Doom three.

Dave [0:15:45]: Is it a book or a video game?

Dave [0:15:46]: I don't know.

Dave [0:15:47]: Caitlin says, what do you eat for breakfast, sheets, scrambled eggs, but we've been doing a lot of cottage cheese, protein bagels too.

Dave [0:15:53]: Recently, for about a last year.

Dave [0:15:55]: And I don't know if you can see me right now.

Dave [0:15:57]: I know.

Dave [0:15:57]: I got it going on.

Dave [0:15:58]: It's sarcastic On five eight or whatever.

Dave [0:16:00]: I've been looking for a breakfast that is healthy, filling, high in protein and doesn't require a lot of clean or cooking and for me that has been overnight oats.

Dave [0:16:08]: This is a commercial for overnight oats.

Dave [0:16:10]: It's like a half scoop of oats, a scoop of protein powder, two big gl of, like yogurt, greek yogurt.

Dave [0:16:17]: Are use sig yogurt?

Dave [0:16:18]: That's just what we have in the house.

Dave [0:16:19]: A little dash of milk and a tablespoon of chia seeds.

Dave [0:16:22]: Takes me five minutes to make.

Dave [0:16:24]: I do it right at night before I'm loading the dish dishwasher.

Dave [0:16:26]: And I go up to bed and make that, and then I have that every morning so I have a breakfast that's, like, forty grams of protein, a bunch of good carbs keeps me full until lunch and, you know, doesn't require cook anything.

Dave [0:16:37]: Overnight oats is really doing it for me.

Dave [0:16:38]: However, the reason I suck at meal prep is I just get so bored and I'm kinda bored of overnight oats right now.

Dave [0:16:44]: But it works for me, and I eat a lot of things for fuel because, you know, life is busy.

Dave [0:16:48]: You can always sit around and have the perfect meal, and if I don't eat then I'm like, you know, next thing you know, it's two o'clock and at the gas station eating like, doritos and a weird protein shake, so it got a breakfast.

Dave [0:16:58]: Alex said, would you do early on to make Exit Five feel like a community rather than an audience?

Dave [0:17:03]: And would you do it differently if you're starting today?

Dave [0:17:05]: I wrote him an answer here, I'll read this for the pod?

Dave [0:17:07]: I never thought of a community or audience as being different really.

Dave [0:17:11]: And True.

Dave [0:17:11]: Those are just marketing words.

Dave [0:17:12]: I think a lot of times we just make things up like, how did you make it an audience versus community, like, I I don't know what's the difference?

Dave [0:17:17]: I just did it.

Dave [0:17:18]: Like I don't I don't have some science.

Dave [0:17:20]: Like, this is not a real reason.

Dave [0:17:21]: So to me, I don't really know how those things are different.

Dave [0:17:24]: I think for me, the biggest thing has been being real and showing my face being in here writing ten thousand comments.

Dave [0:17:29]: I think if I could pull up the analytics of my stats here and it's, you know, I've been treated like this to product since day one.

Dave [0:17:36]: Obviously, I spend less time writing replies than I used to.

Dave [0:17:39]: But now we have a team of nine people, and it's, like, I don't have to do all that all the time now.

Dave [0:17:43]: And so a big part of it was that, but, you know, ten thousand comments showing my face adding humor.

Dave [0:17:48]: I think people just wanna know there's someone real on the other end.

Dave [0:17:51]: And so that was a huge part of it is early on responding to everything.

Dave [0:17:54]: Showing you're listening.

Dave [0:17:55]: A boss told me once like, hey, You, I used to manage just engineering team and in the survey, they said they wanted better snacks in the break room and, like, literally that after I went out and I got.

Dave [0:18:04]: Better snacks.

Dave [0:18:05]: And it's just like, actually seeing that feedback loop in action really mattered.

Dave [0:18:09]: And so I think, like, you know, people feeling like we have a pulse on things because they see topics come up and we do sessions about them or we, you know, respond to members are your feedback and make changes.

Dave [0:18:19]: I think it's the one to one, the hand to hand thing.

Dave [0:18:21]: And then the other thing is, like, you know, doing events in person, man, I've met so many people from online and then met them the first year doing Drive in person.

Dave [0:18:29]: And now we have, like, a personal relationship in connection.

Dave [0:18:31]: I'd feel like There's a bunch of people here.

Dave [0:18:33]: Like, I feel like I know like Saw hill or Lindsay who wrote a comment here.

Dave [0:18:37]: I can read it differently because we've met a bunch of times in person, and I think that matters.

Dave [0:18:41]: There's a lot here.

Dave [0:18:42]: I also think a lot of it is, like.

Dave [0:18:43]: It's very easy to go back and be like, you know, what are the things you did intentionally and it's like, don't know.

Dave [0:18:48]: It's like, where they call it survivors ship bias.

Dave [0:18:50]: Like, this just work for us.

Dave [0:18:52]: I can't say that all these things were like these genius strokes and I think a lot of times in these business stories and case studies or whatever you read online about how X y z company grew.

Dave [0:19:01]: It's like, They make it seem like I was sitting around and had this, like, step by step month by month, week by week road roadmap of what we were gonna do with Exit Five, and that's just not true.

Dave [0:19:11]: It's very much day to day, week to week.

Dave [0:19:13]: Get more at bats, get feedback, make changes listen to people.

Dave [0:19:17]: Have a sense of what people want in the market.

Dave [0:19:19]: That's the only way I know really.

Dave [0:19:20]: Alright, Chelsea, also the homie, Chelsea, on professional growth, the CMO says Always head on marketing in areas of growth for me.

Dave [0:19:27]: Areas of growth for me are more about how I lead in a role and the technical capabilities how to build and grow the right team for my specific org.

Dave [0:19:34]: And how do I create strategic clarity and lead my peers?

Dave [0:19:37]: I've been managing people for over ten years, but tailoring that leadership to different audiences at my company based on what the needs are has been challenging.

Dave [0:19:44]: Would love any thoughts on this, especially the strategic clarity part and how to train my tiny very Adhd brain to become a more structured thinker so Chelsea to me, It seems like the difference between becoming a marketer and being a manager or an executive.

Dave [0:19:56]: And then they're different roles.

Dave [0:19:57]: Right?

Dave [0:19:57]: Being the individual marketer, you get paid and you're measured on your ability to, like, do the thing well to run the good event, but the CMO here sounds like they want you to be more of a…

Dave [0:20:08]: We throw around the word strategic thinker, but I just think that means like being a business partner inside of the company, not Chelsea managing an individual channel as part of marketing, but seeing where this fits brought, like, larger and broader in the set of the company, and I look, I know this is hard for people, but you have to realize if you have a job and you work for someone else, and you work inside of a company.

Dave [0:20:27]: You have to match how you work to that style of the company or leave or go do a different job, right, or quit, but you often have to, like, figure out how do they think?

Dave [0:20:37]: How do they work?

Dave [0:20:38]: What does leadership want?

Dave [0:20:39]: And you have to align what you're doing to the goals and priorities that the leadership team is setting.

Dave [0:20:44]: And if you don't agree with them, you can either quit.

Dave [0:20:47]: Or you just gotta be like, alright.

Dave [0:20:49]: Yeah.

Dave [0:20:49]: Fuck this, but I'm gonna do it anyway, and you have to kinda get in line.

Dave [0:20:52]: I think one thing I've learned from this business from my experience in the past.

Dave [0:20:56]: I was talking to a friend of mine who owns a small business yesterday.

Dave [0:20:59]: I'm not a small business expert, but I've just been around teams enough, and it's, like, The number one thing is incentives Drive behavior period.

Dave [0:21:07]: Show me the goals of the company, show me the goals we've set and I can show you what people should are are gonna be doing and also why they're not doing things.

Dave [0:21:14]: The reason you can't get on the same page with sales or this person's not gonna do that thing inside the companies because usually, they're not incentivized to do so, and you could be a good person and have this altruistic view of the world, but they're just not gonna do the thing because I don't know.

Dave [0:21:29]: Yeah, like the podcast is just not really how I'm paid or measured, and so it doesn't really matter.

Dave [0:21:33]: And I think that to me is the strategic piece.

Dave [0:21:36]: You know, how can you spend more time with the CMO and understand the things like, you know, she cares about and understand what's important in her job and really learn how to serve her better.

Dave [0:21:44]: That is going to be the thing that will help you maybe solve that problem Or not?

Dave [0:21:48]: What do I know?

Dave [0:21:49]: Right?

Dave [0:21:49]: I worked for myself for a while now.

Dave [0:21:51]: Robert Hanson, Dave Ge.

Dave [0:21:52]: If you were starting B2B marketing from Scratch today as a new head of marketing and a blank slate, what would your plans, playbook in first ninety days I know everyone's gonna hate this answer, but there is no playbook that my playbook is there is not one.

Dave [0:22:05]: And so I think this is what's really fun about business and any job really is the first ninety days.

Dave [0:22:09]: Well, I would come in with a plan.

Dave [0:22:11]: I wouldn't be…

Dave [0:22:11]: Let me get onboard for ninety days, but Really, it's like, I don't know.

Dave [0:22:15]: I need to understand the competition.

Dave [0:22:17]: I need to understand the market.

Dave [0:22:18]: I need to understand the product.

Dave [0:22:20]: I need to understand the customers.

Dave [0:22:21]: I need to figure out where the gaps are, what the opportunities are because, again, I'll say this for the millionth time I say this all the time.

Dave [0:22:28]: Everything works.

Dave [0:22:29]: Webinars work, ads work, direct mail works, Tiktok works, partnerships, works, reseller work, c marketing, work everything works.

Dave [0:22:36]: You have to figure out what you can actually pull off, and that is so often predicated on, like your team, your talent, the budget.

Dave [0:22:43]: The more…

Dave [0:22:43]: Everyone says hire a players.

Dave [0:22:45]: Well, What if you can't?

Dave [0:22:46]: What if you don't have the budget to?

Dave [0:22:48]: What if a players don't wanna work at your company, then you have to hire someone who's not an a player and, you know, pay them less because that's what you can afford and how can you find that person and train them, like, there's just too much nuance here.

Dave [0:22:58]: And I think that, ultimately it comes down to, like, having a deep understanding of the customer, the market of the business, and then being able to pull some levers and make some plays.

Dave [0:23:08]: That said, I know you're looking for a specific answer here for me and B2B the number one thing still comes back to in B, I like to always think about how can you be the top resource for your customer.

Dave [0:23:18]: If you sell to cybersecurity to finance, to developers, to It to sales to marketing to accounting to finance whatever it is.

Dave [0:23:27]: I think it's a great strategy because in B2B, it's a considered purchase.

Dave [0:23:30]: You're not just gonna see an ad and buy.

Dave [0:23:32]: You need to try to build a relationship with that person.

Dave [0:23:34]: I think everyone in a job usually needs to know how to do their job better.

Dave [0:23:38]: Or some people, the top one percent ish type people want to do that.

Dave [0:23:41]: And so the job in marketing and B2B marketing can be, How could we be an educational resource for them.

Dave [0:23:46]: How we entertain them, How can we be fun, funny, entertaining, informative, useful, specific.

Dave [0:23:52]: Then you figure out how that plays out for them.

Dave [0:23:54]: Tammy said, why doesn't the Exit Five community have a dedicated Slack community and not just the CMO circle?

Dave [0:24:01]: Sorry.

Dave [0:24:01]: I just really want Slack for us.

Dave [0:24:03]: Good question, not some secret Cabal plotting against everyone here.

Dave [0:24:08]: We've kinda, over the years.

Dave [0:24:09]: It was on Facebook, and then I moved it to Circle, and then everyone's always asked.

Dave [0:24:13]: What about Slack?

Dave [0:24:14]: And what about that?

Dave [0:24:14]: What about that?

Dave [0:24:15]: I think there's a bunch of examples of successful communities on all different channels.

Dave [0:24:18]: We do have a membership for VPs and CMOs.

Dave [0:24:22]: These are executives.

Dave [0:24:24]: I think most of them are at companies over twenty five or fifty million.

Dave [0:24:27]: It's not because we're discriminating against anyone that has a lower revenue tier.

Dave [0:24:31]: We've just found there was a group of higher level VPs and CMO that came to us and said, hey, we'd love to have something a little bit more different.

Dave [0:24:38]: And just for us, okay.

Dave [0:24:40]: Cool.

Dave [0:24:41]: And we're were like, you know what Let's just try someone new.

Dave [0:24:42]: Let's launch that on Slack.

Dave [0:24:43]: We have that.

Dave [0:24:44]: It's called our CMO council.

Dave [0:24:45]: We're soon rebranding that should just be called the executive membership Matt.

Dave [0:24:48]: If you're listening to this, and you haven't done it yet.

Dave [0:24:51]: Take a lap.

Dave [0:24:51]: No, matt.

Dave [0:24:52]: Great.

Dave [0:24:53]: Hope he listens while your buddy.

Dave [0:24:54]: My guy.

Dave [0:24:56]: Mister Two masa.

Dave [0:24:57]: So, yeah, we have it on Slack for the execs.

Dave [0:24:59]: I think ideally, we would find a way to have more people in there.

Dave [0:25:03]: It's just you know, migrating tools, partners, platforms, all that.

Dave [0:25:07]: Yeah.

Dave [0:25:08]: I think there's a world matt actually said more thinking about it.

Dave [0:25:10]: There is something that we'd love to get more people involved in the Slack, but Tb.

Dave [0:25:13]: I don't know, Crest is always greener.

Dave [0:25:15]: David Dr said since you offered the topic of hair, have you considered this truly worth a watch.

Dave [0:25:21]: It's not what you think Alright.

Dave [0:25:22]: Should I just do this?

Dave [0:25:23]: This feels risky, but I'll do this live and see if I Great.

Dave [0:25:27]: They gave me so much in my life.

Dave [0:25:29]: Jeez.

Dave [0:25:30]: Just wish the one thing they hadn't passed on was the bald gene.

Dave [0:25:34]: It's been devastating as a woman take a problem miss darkness.

Dave [0:25:36]: People can be very cruel.

Dave [0:25:39]: Millions of you have come to us at had Bo hair restoration to help ease the heartbreak of bald.

Dave [0:25:44]: And have your hair restored naturally to its original hairline and density.

Dave [0:25:48]: Yeah.

Dave [0:25:48]: Until they're back.

Dave [0:25:50]: What's the punchline now?

Dave [0:25:51]: Am I your hair.

Dave [0:25:55]: Alright.

Dave [0:25:55]: So I know I have not.

Dave [0:25:56]: It feels a lot of pressure though, it's like watching that live on the podcast is was like, hey, Listen to my joke, and I have to react to it.

Dave [0:26:03]: I think I look great.

Dave [0:26:05]: I have no plans to go to Turkey and get my hair did.

Dave [0:26:07]: And actually, the best thing I did was started shave my head in my late twenties, because now all my friends that are approaching their forties and are starting to, you know, really show their bald ness, like, they're holding on for dear life and they haven't had the courage to shave their head yet, so I was early adopter there.

Dave [0:26:20]: No big deal.

Dave [0:26:21]: Next question is from Joe, I feel like you've mentioned it in different places at different times when My ask, Dave, anything question would be?

Dave [0:26:28]: What do you do outside of work that helps you bring your best self to work.

Dave [0:26:30]: Joe, great question.

Dave [0:26:32]: I talk about this often because it's funny.

Dave [0:26:35]: If you look at my content online, you're like, man, This dude just loves B2B marketing.

Dave [0:26:39]: I do.

Dave [0:26:40]: That's part of my job, but I I'm a much more well rounded person and a full person outside of work joe.

Dave [0:26:45]: Thank you for asking.

Dave [0:26:46]: So there's a couple things.

Dave [0:26:47]: Deeply rooted in family, I just love…

Dave [0:26:51]: I got two kids.

Dave [0:26:51]: My wife.

Dave [0:26:52]: I love just being with them.

Dave [0:26:53]: Like, so I'm really simple guy.

Dave [0:26:55]: I feel like all I've wanted my whole life is to have a reason to, like, stay in on a Friday night and not go out drinking or…

Dave [0:27:01]: I got…

Dave [0:27:02]: And I have that now.

Dave [0:27:03]: It's amazing.

Dave [0:27:04]: And so you know, go to bed early.

Dave [0:27:06]: I love being a dad.

Dave [0:27:07]: It's just so fun to see my kids be curious and learn about life, so fully invested there And think I'm a better…

Dave [0:27:12]: People who don't like me online.

Dave [0:27:15]: They would never wanna know this, but I think I'm actually better being a dad and a parent than I am at.

Dave [0:27:20]: My job in Exit Five and being a B2B marketer.

Dave [0:27:22]: So that's a big thing for me.

Dave [0:27:24]: I have to exercise a lot.

Dave [0:27:25]: I've learned about myself.

Dave [0:27:27]: I'm like a dog.

Dave [0:27:27]: I kinda just exercise myself every day into a state of, like, happiness.

Dave [0:27:31]: I actually do think there's a big thing there with mental health and, you know, drugs and stuff where…

Dave [0:27:37]: Man, if we could just get more people exercising.

Dave [0:27:39]: It's clearly to me we were wired that way biologically, like, to run away from predators or something that your body makes you feel good.

Dave [0:27:47]: And so I always caveat this by…

Dave [0:27:50]: When I tell people my schedule, I don't wanna be seen as one of those people who, you know, does all the things and gets up at the crack dump, but I'm just gonna tell you what I do and there's no projection or judgment around it, but my alarm goes off at five thirty.

Dave [0:28:01]: I wake up, I brush my teeth.

Dave [0:28:03]: I go downstairs.

Dave [0:28:04]: I chug water.

Dave [0:28:05]: Everybody's still sleeping.

Dave [0:28:06]: I make a cup of coffee.

Dave [0:28:08]: It has a scoop of cr in it, a little half and half and some maple syrup.

Dave [0:28:12]: I mix that up.

Dave [0:28:13]: I have that coffee.

Dave [0:28:14]: I have a little workout space in my house.

Dave [0:28:17]: If I'm bored at home.

Dave [0:28:18]: I go to the gym, but I typically do strength training in the morning because I wanna be outside later in the day.

Dave [0:28:23]: I like to do strength training and cardio every day.

Dave [0:28:26]: I'm not on some type of program.

Dave [0:28:28]: It just makes me feel good, and it's a huge part of my thing.

Dave [0:28:31]: And so I do…

Dave [0:28:31]: I lift weights for forty five minutes ish in the morning, Go wake my kids up, breakfast, drop off school, and then usually from eight to nine after I dropped the kids off at school.

Dave [0:28:41]: I try to do some type of cardio outside that could be as easy as I walk for an hour.

Dave [0:28:45]: And I like to do it two for one, which is bring the dog.

Dave [0:28:47]: I think the best thing in the world is to have a tired animal that you exercise together and the dog loves me because of that.

Dave [0:28:53]: So I either run rock, hike or just walk try to be outside no matter the weather because, you know, I spend I spent my days inside doing doing B2B marketing stuff.

Dave [0:29:03]: And so I wanna to get that cardio in outside.

Dave [0:29:05]: And then that's pretty much it, man.

Dave [0:29:07]: I like to work out.

Dave [0:29:08]: I like to work work gives a lot of purpose, not in some crazy work a holiday way, but I feel like we were meant to work and to be on a team and to have a community of some kind and to work on stuff together.

Dave [0:29:18]: So I like to work, do something productive to feel like I moved my work life in business forward that day.

Dave [0:29:24]: And then I'm typically back home around, you know, three o'clock pick up my kids at school if I can do it that day if I don't have any big things going on.

Dave [0:29:32]: We hang out at home, pitch to my son, draw or, you know, Ron or chase my daughter around.

Dave [0:29:37]: Like, this That's it, man.

Dave [0:29:39]: I'm in that phase of my life right now.

Dave [0:29:40]: It's very simple, and I cry every time I see the Instagram content that says, one day when you're eighty, you will give anything to have one of these days back right now.

Dave [0:29:49]: And so that's the phase of life that I'm in, and that's all I need.

Dave [0:29:51]: I like to play golf.

Dave [0:29:53]: I'm playing les golf lately, but I like to just hit ball chip around practice.

Dave [0:29:56]: Coach my kids teams when I can.

Dave [0:29:59]: Like I coach baseball.

Dave [0:30:00]: We got lots of soccer in activities.

Dave [0:30:02]: So that's what I'm doing right now, Joe Race.

Dave [0:30:04]: Send me a message on Linkedin and let me know.

Dave [0:30:05]: Okay?

Dave [0:30:06]: Emily says, Dave, you've been to more marketing conferences than many of us aside from Drive.

Dave [0:30:10]: Obviously, we'd love a rundown of your top picks and why?

Dave [0:30:13]: Like, which ones are worth the expensive of convincing your boss using your s and even paying your own way.

Dave [0:30:17]: Look, I tried to answer I I really don't.

Dave [0:30:20]: I…

Dave [0:30:20]: The only events I've gone to in the last couple of years have been ours for Exit Five for Drive.

Dave [0:30:24]: I did go down to check out Hubspot un bound this year because I hadn't been there in ten years and I had some meetings that I wanted to go see people but really don't, Emily.

Dave [0:30:32]: I don't have an opinion for you.

Dave [0:30:33]: This would actually be a better question for the broader community to see which trade shows are worth going to.

Dave [0:30:38]: Oh my gosh.

Dave [0:30:39]: Did we make it?

Dave [0:30:39]: I'm gonna pass out This is great.

Dave [0:30:41]: Last question here is from Matthew.

Dave [0:30:42]: Dave, what's something younger you really wanted that you don't care much about any anymore and what's gone the opposite direction.

Dave [0:30:49]: Yeah.

Dave [0:30:50]: I think younger me probably wanted to be, like, a professional athlete or something, like, in sports and sports were just a huge part of my identity and my self worth and all that stuff.

Dave [0:31:03]: And now I'm like, I don't care about any of that stuff.

Dave [0:31:04]: I don't didn't watch.

Dave [0:31:05]: I used to watch the Nfl for ten hours on a Sunday, red zone, you know, just sit there all day.

Dave [0:31:10]: I haven't watched a football game in ten year directly correlates with my kids, but just doesn't do that for me.

Dave [0:31:14]: And so I don't really care about sports and that type of stuff.

Dave [0:31:18]: I also really used to be into, like, sneakers and Jordans and Nike and Air max and all this stuff, and I don't really care about that anymore either.

Dave [0:31:26]: So I've gone completely in the opposite direction there.

Dave [0:31:29]: I think probably just being in a good play.

Dave [0:31:31]: I'm very fortunate, you know, to have a healthy family, a nice business and a good life.

Dave [0:31:36]: I'm a simple man.

Dave [0:31:38]: Give me that.

Dave [0:31:38]: Let me wake up workout.

Dave [0:31:40]: Eat good food, hang out with my family.

Dave [0:31:43]: See my friends.

Dave [0:31:44]: I do think that one thing that's gone in the opposite direction is.

Dave [0:31:47]: I used to feel like everything can be online.

Dave [0:31:49]: Who cares?

Dave [0:31:50]: I'm gonna whole out my bunker in Vermont, and I've realized the last probably three years that I'm extroverted, and I like to be around people.

Dave [0:31:57]: I like my own time alone to.

Dave [0:31:59]: But I think being around people really gives me a lot of energy, and I've kinda changed my opinion that.

Dave [0:32:04]: Man, I think I need to be working on a team, I think I need to be in an office with people, we don't have that now at Exit Five, who knows maybe one day or a future company.

Dave [0:32:12]: I will have that.

Dave [0:32:12]: I don't know.

Dave [0:32:13]: I need to be around other people can't just whole out and, like, you know, collect your coins.

Dave [0:32:17]: And then also, I think it's very important that as much as I've talked about kids and family.

Dave [0:32:21]: I think it's important to have, you know, your friends and be able to take a guy's trip or a girls trip or to do whatever you do, some of my wife and I do is, like, we don't really keep score with each other at all, which I know some of y'all all do that.

Dave [0:32:32]: Toxic couples where, you know, husband goes away, Wife gotta go away.

Dave [0:32:36]: Wife gotta go away.

Dave [0:32:37]: Husband's pissed because he's at, No.

Dave [0:32:39]: We don't do that.

Dave [0:32:39]: We support each other Leah wants.

Dave [0:32:41]: Ago and, you know, have a weekend with her friends.

Dave [0:32:43]: Heck yeah.

Dave [0:32:43]: Go do that.

Dave [0:32:44]: I'm not some idiot dad that can't watch the kids at home.

Dave [0:32:46]: So I'm taking a lot of shot.

Dave [0:32:48]: I gotta hang up this podcast.

Dave [0:32:49]: Alright.

Dave [0:32:50]: Thank you all for the question.

Dave [0:32:51]: This has been a mail bag.

Dave [0:32:52]: We didn't really talk about that much marketing, and I think that's great.

Dave [0:32:55]: A little mix of personal stuff marketing stuff, mail bag episode, one for the hopper for Marissa and Maria.

Dave [0:33:01]: Look, give us some feedback.

Dave [0:33:03]: We wanna know…

Dave [0:33:04]: I wanna know specifically, what do you wanna hear more of?

Dave [0:33:06]: We're in this stage right now, we're investing in all of our content, specifically our podcast email us.

Dave [0:33:11]: I want you to do that take this action.

Dave [0:33:13]: Email us hi at exitfive.com with this subject line podcast ideas, tell us topics, companies, people.

Dave [0:33:20]: What do you wanna hear?

Dave [0:33:20]: Do you wanna hear interviews with big name, CMOs, You wanna hear interviews with people doing marketing at companies you've heard of.

Dave [0:33:26]: Do you wanna hear, you know, people you don't know who they are, but they can talk really smartly about Seo and a tactical stuff.

Dave [0:33:31]: Do want more outside of work stuff like this, Tell us we're all plugged in in the content machine here right now and we're thinking about what types of stuff we should be making for twenty twenty seven.

Dave [0:33:40]: So send us your ideas and feedback we'll read them all and get back to you.

Dave [0:33:44]: Thanks for listening to this episode.

Dave [0:33:45]: Exit Five podcast gas I'm Dave.

Dave [0:33:47]: I'm out.

Dave [0:33:48]: Hey.

Dave [0:33:52]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.

Dave [0:33:54]: If you like this episode.

Dave [0:33:55]: You know what?

Dave [0:33:56]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.

Dave [0:34:00]: I have something better for you.

Dave [0:34:02]: So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating in a review, Go check it out right now on our website, exitfive.com.

Dave [0:34:13]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing, then there's no better place to do that than with us at Exit Five.

Dave [0:34:20]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community, people are in their posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning.

Dave [0:34:28]: Ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing same thing you are so you can have a peer group, or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest.

Dave [0:34:41]: It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free, and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year.

Dave [0:34:50]: Go check it out.

Dave [0:34:51]: Learn more, exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.