Why B2B Marketers Should Be Running CTV Ads with Amit Sharan (SVP Marketing at Tatari)

Dave [0:00:01]: You’re listening to The Dave Gerhardt Show. Dave [0:00:02]: I checked this out. Dave [0:00:17]: You can run Amit [0:00:19]: Tv ads for fifty bucks a day. Amit [0:00:20]: Most B2B marketers have no idea that’s even possible. Amit [0:00:23]: You hear Tv and you think Super Bowl, and I can’t possibly afford that or go and do it Look. Amit [0:00:28]: My guess is this episode is Ami Sean. Amit [0:00:30]: He’s Sv of marketing at Atari. Amit [0:00:32]: They’re an ad tech platform that lets you buy and measure Tv the same way you buy Google and Linkedin. Amit [0:00:37]: Before this, he was the first marketing hired for startups, including live rail which sold to Facebook for four hundred fifty million. Amit [0:00:44]: We get into everything you need to know about Ct tv heading into twenty twenty six. Amit [0:00:48]: Why programmatic ad buying only touches about fifteen percent of Tv inventory. Amit [0:00:52]: The move he says every B2B marketer should be running right now with Tv. Amit [0:00:56]: How and why to re target your website visitors on connected Tv and the halo effect that lifts every other channel after your first campaign. Amit [0:01:03]: He left me with a bunch of notes and making me feel like mail, we need to be running Tv ads for Exit Five. Amit [0:01:08]: So If you’re tired of dumping more budget into adwords and looking for new channels right now. Amit [0:01:13]: This one’s for you, enjoy my conversation with Ami. Amit [0:01:16]: Okay. Amit [0:01:17]: So you’ve been verse marketing higher at four startups, including Live rail, which sold to Facebook, Okay. Amit [0:01:23]: Meta for four fifty million dollars now you’re at Tar. Amit [0:01:25]: You’re kinda just, like, early stage marketing guy and you grow things, but tar has been a good a good little run for you. Amit [0:01:32]: Can you just replay that? Amit [0:01:33]: Let’s let’s use that to set the stage of, like, You literally said I’m not gonna talk about Atari. Amit [0:01:37]: I need you to because it sets the stage for this. Amit [0:01:40]: So your Sv of marketing there, Tv advertising platform for brands and agencies. Amit [0:01:44]: When did you get there? Amit [0:01:45]: Like, just tell me about your run at Atari and, like, what you’ve been doing and just to set the stage for our conversation. Dave [0:01:51]: Yeah. Dave [0:01:51]: So been in ad tech now for probably ten plus years. Dave [0:01:55]: I was at a early stage company called Live rail, it was basically a video Ss p to use some industry jargon to breakdown what that means is when you go watch a video online, you press play. Dave [0:02:08]: You see that pre roll of that mid roll ad. Dave [0:02:10]: We were early in that game. Dave [0:02:12]: And twenty five percent of, like, whole online video flew through our platform. Dave [0:02:15]: Meta, at the time known as Facebook was they called it preparing for winter. Dave [0:02:21]: This said winter is coming, and that meant that the… Dave [0:02:25]: What year was this? Dave [0:02:26]: This was twenty fourteen. Dave [0:02:27]: So the inventory and news feed was running out. Dave [0:02:32]: They’re were literally running out of inventory. Dave [0:02:35]: They needed to create new services. Dave [0:02:36]: They need to be able to get their ads, be able to deliver their ads off of Facebook proper. Dave [0:02:41]: And so they acquired Live rail. Dave [0:02:44]: And we could spend a whole episode talking about what it’s like Z acc to Facebook, got some Juicy fun stories. Dave [0:02:50]: But what that also morph into is a Facebook audience network. Dave [0:02:54]: So I ran marketing for that billion dollar business unit. Amit [0:02:59]: How long did you stick around after that deal, Dave [0:03:01]: about four and a half years. Amit [0:03:02]: Okay. Amit [0:03:02]: Wow. Amit [0:03:03]: So you were a facebook employee, technically for four plus years. Dave [0:03:07]: Yeah. Dave [0:03:07]: And so I did that… Dave [0:03:08]: I I I ran marketing in the ad tech park for Live and audience network for about half that time, and they were essentially trying to build double click. Dave [0:03:16]: Right? Dave [0:03:17]: Everything that Google acquired and put together into what, you know, what was what’s known as their ads week today. Dave [0:03:22]: And, you know, kinda again, to maybe share some of the Juicy bits of what happens after an acquisition. Dave [0:03:28]: I think that would actually be a good podcast thing for you of, like, all the people have had exits, go talk about what happened after the exit? Amit [0:03:35]: Yeah. Amit [0:03:35]: I mean, on my brain. Amit [0:03:36]: So I don’t always say these things out loud, but my brain instantly went to. Amit [0:03:39]: I wonder how much money he made in that deal. Amit [0:03:41]: Like, that’s That’s only because I finally had… Amit [0:03:44]: I had two companies get acquired in the same year while I was… Amit [0:03:49]: So I had left one and I was at the other and both of them in twenty twenty one had liquidity events happened, and I thought it was the richest man in America. Amit [0:03:56]: You know, I’m not. Amit [0:03:57]: But it was like, the most amazing thing to see money come into your bank account. Amit [0:04:01]: And, you know, I spent fifteen years before that, talking to everybody. Amit [0:04:05]: You just don’t actually know. Amit [0:04:07]: I don’t know if you know Sam. Amit [0:04:08]: He runs hampton. Amit [0:04:09]: As a, like, founder community. Amit [0:04:10]: Here’s is a podcast which I think is a great idea called Money wise where you just bring on people who are, like, willing to willing to talk about things financially because, man, there’s so much that I learned through that process. Amit [0:04:20]: I, you know, got screwed on this tax thing and I should have done this thing, and this thing didn’t happen and it’s, like, you only know what you know now. Amit [0:04:27]: So, yes, absolutely, That that would be a great podcast. Amit [0:04:30]: I mean, should be a thing in Our CMO Counsel. Amit [0:04:32]: Like, you know, we had somebody couple months ago I was like, yeah, I’ve been in my job for four and a half years. Amit [0:04:37]: Like Fully vested. Amit [0:04:38]: I think the company gonna sell, but I kinda wanna leave, you know, like, stuff like that is that’s the real stuff beyond the, like, is Ct tv a good channel. Amit [0:04:45]: You know what I mean? Amit [0:04:46]: So, yeah, there’s a lot there for sure, but we’ll do that another time. Amit [0:04:49]: Separate. Amit [0:04:50]: That’s a after hours pod. Dave [0:04:52]: So the back half that that time spent there was actually moving over to product marketing, or again the… Dave [0:04:59]: What they called global business marketing. Dave [0:05:00]: And I got to join a team those was called media monetization. Dave [0:05:04]: His newly formed team, and I was just like, hey, we need to create all these new ad services, and we need a team that can can bring this stuff to market. Dave [0:05:09]: And so there be consumer service is that would love launch which stuff like Facebook Live. Dave [0:05:14]: If you remember that or Facebook Watch or Instagram Tv, and then there was stuff with… Amit [0:05:21]: Oh, I would… Amit [0:05:21]: I was so into the all those social channels because My one of my first jobs and right around this time, like, the twenty twenty ten to twenty fourteen. Amit [0:05:29]: I was working in P r at this company constant contact their emails email provider, and they had made a bunch of… Amit [0:05:37]: They were trying, like expand beyond email into social, and my job was the P Was a P guy at a full head of hair fresh out of college. Amit [0:05:43]: I was the P guy on their social media products. Amit [0:05:46]: And so my job was to read tech crunch every day, and this was, like, you know, buddy media, wildfire, like, all these so much social news feed, you know, Facebook used to have to have to, like, likes the Facebook page, like, get access to the feed, and that was, like, my whole life for the longest time. Amit [0:06:02]: And then I worked at Hubspot and Hubspot was very, like, just trying to do new stuff and remember, like mee cat, you know, it’s like vine, mee cat and like, all these random little social apps would come out on product content and people would use it. Amit [0:06:14]: That was that was a time. Amit [0:06:15]: And now now I just… Amit [0:06:16]: You’re just in claude all day, and there’s nothing exciting. Dave [0:06:20]: There was a lot of hours to club. Dave [0:06:21]: Yeah. Dave [0:06:22]: So I I got to work on some cool stuff, and again, marketing to marketers, you know, I’d I’d have to… Dave [0:06:28]: And this kid kinda getting back to how I landed at Atari. Dave [0:06:31]: I would have to show up at what we call executive briefing center or partner center meetings. Dave [0:06:36]: It was kind of a dog and pony show thing where you be bringing the largest Facebook advertisers and you’d share the road map of, like, here’s all the cool things we’re building, And I’d get to go in there and talk about all these new services that are coming and how we’re gonna… Dave [0:06:49]: And how there’s gonna be new ad formats against them. Dave [0:06:51]: And as I started to kinda think about what’s next for me. Dave [0:06:55]: Personally, I was like, you know, I wanna get back to building. Dave [0:06:57]: And if there’s, you know, there’s a a time and a place to go build a company and sell it again, it’s definitely in the Bay Area. Dave [0:07:03]: And so When I came across Atari, I talked to our founder Philippe, and I said to him, hey. Dave [0:07:10]: I’ve been spending the last four years, kinda spreading the propaganda that that Tv dead, and Mobile was king. Dave [0:07:16]: I literally wrote the global pitch deck for Facebook and Tv. Dave [0:07:21]: And I was like, tell me why brands are coming to Tv. Dave [0:07:25]: And he kinda listed off everything I was hearing in those partner center meetings without without knowing it. Dave [0:07:31]: And it kinda goes back to, like, news feed slowing and people hitting the same audience over and over and just kinda hitting a general plateau on on social and needing to find a new channel at scale. Dave [0:07:41]: And the more I poke that, the road map, with Atari and the vision. Dave [0:07:45]: I was like, you got something here. Amit [0:07:47]: Hold on. Amit [0:07:47]: Didn’t you tell me? Amit [0:07:49]: I feel like you told me that the founder was the guy who created S? Amit [0:07:52]: Is that true? Dave [0:07:53]: Yeah. Dave [0:07:53]: That’s true. Dave [0:07:54]: That’s fun back. Amit [0:07:55]: Is that Philippe? Amit [0:07:56]: Is that you say? Amit [0:07:56]: Yeah. Amit [0:07:57]: So you how did you meet this guy? Dave [0:07:59]: Believe it or not, this was… Dave [0:08:00]: I feel like this was like, I don’t know if you’re on website. Dave [0:08:03]: I don’t know if it’s still around. Dave [0:08:04]: I think it’s angel list, Like, it was more. Amit [0:08:06]: Yeah. Amit [0:08:06]: What do you mean? Amit [0:08:07]: Of course. Amit [0:08:07]: I’m a big investor, man. Amit [0:08:09]: I got. Amit [0:08:09]: God five thousand dollars in a bunch of different companies, my guy. Amit [0:08:12]: Don’t you worry. Dave [0:08:13]: Early stage start… Dave [0:08:14]: I mean, like, the website had had a pretty. Dave [0:08:17]: Oh, duty. Amit [0:08:20]: Angel, like, if you were looking for, like, a real good job in in, like, tech in Saas and marketing, you’d you’d go find Angel because Angel was all, like, the kind of venture backed companies, the Yc type of companies. Amit [0:08:31]: So you’re saying you did you… Amit [0:08:32]: That’s how you found You’re just browsing Angel list for jobs. Amit [0:08:34]: Yeah. Amit [0:08:34]: You gotta be, like, that’s where the… Amit [0:08:36]: Like, if you’re the tech The tech forward founder who’s looking for a marketing person you post that thing on Angel for sure. Dave [0:08:43]: Yeah. Dave [0:08:43]: And they weren’t looking for someone of my senior at the time. Dave [0:08:47]: I reached out. Dave [0:08:48]: I just said, hey, like, love talk to he look I’ve been at Facebook have been in online video and Ad tech and and we eventually, we saw this would be a good fit. Dave [0:08:58]: And he he likes to say that he probably hired me a little too early in terms of, you know, bringing on a senior marketer, but I think it was right move. Amit [0:09:05]: And okay. Amit [0:09:06]: So that was what year was at? Dave [0:09:08]: That was twenty eighteen. Dave [0:09:08]: We about, it goes was employee number twenty eight when I joined we’re currently around a little over three hundred people, profitable. Amit [0:09:17]: Can you give me a revenue taste. Dave [0:09:20]: I can’t. Dave [0:09:20]: Just because we’re a private company. Dave [0:09:22]: I do think I put leap on Tv VPn, and he said, you know, we’re oil over a hundred million in net. Dave [0:09:28]: I think there’s a lot of founders out there like to talk about gross, which is a much bigger hundred million net. Dave [0:09:33]: Flex, which is much bigger number on the growth side. Dave [0:09:36]: But look to give people letting an example of just kind of the the scale of stuff that we’re doing. Dave [0:09:41]: So as I think there’s a lot of companies out there that are, you know, they’ll take your five hundred bucks, and they… Dave [0:09:45]: They’ll run a Tv campaign for you, we’ve put four brands on the Super Bowl in February of this year. Dave [0:09:49]: Right? Dave [0:09:50]: So, like, we definitely have a bigger spectrum of the types of clients that we work. Dave [0:09:54]: With… Dave [0:09:55]: And this kinda where it gets into B2B marketing. Dave [0:09:56]: Right? Dave [0:09:56]: We’ve got your kinda Smb. Dave [0:09:58]: We got your mid market. Dave [0:09:59]: We got your enterprise. Amit [0:10:01]: So can someone give you five hundred bucks it’s like, if you have a big budget? Amit [0:10:04]: Or are are you focused on those, like, four brands that are gonna do super bullets? Dave [0:10:09]: No. Dave [0:10:09]: We… Dave [0:10:09]: Like likes said, we’ve got brands across the spectrum, but to just point blank answers. Dave [0:10:13]: No. Dave [0:10:13]: Like we’re not gonna take your five hundred bucks. Dave [0:10:15]: But is you’re not gonna learn. Dave [0:10:17]: You’re not gonna worry for that. Amit [0:10:18]: Okay. Amit [0:10:18]: Sorry. Amit [0:10:19]: This is my podcast, which means I get to ask any questions that come across my desk. Amit [0:10:22]: So over a hundred million in profit of some kind. Amit [0:10:25]: That’s what that means. Amit [0:10:26]: That’s the net, so you do your math on that? Amit [0:10:28]: That’s a good one. Amit [0:10:29]: You said I put Philippe on Tb VPn. Amit [0:10:31]: How did you get them on Tb VPn? Dave [0:10:34]: That actually just ended up being… Dave [0:10:35]: Yeah, I tried the P channels. Dave [0:10:36]: I tried personal outreach and it just ended up having to be, like, you know someone who knows someone Amit [0:10:41]: Did you try to, like, reach out to John and majority directly or producer Ban or he tried everybody? Dave [0:10:46]: Yeah. Dave [0:10:46]: Yeah. Dave [0:10:46]: Tried it that way, and then it just happened to be someone at the company knew someone, again, I think it was their their dad. Dave [0:10:52]: Knew someone there Amit [0:10:53]: and Okay. Amit [0:10:54]: And dude, did was there any marketing spike from being on Tv nordVPn or is it a more of a who’s who influence cry, you know, silicon Valley crowd? Dave [0:11:02]: Yeah. Dave [0:11:02]: Yeah. Dave [0:11:03]: I can’t say lead started flowing in from that, But, look, I think of marketing as three buckets where one is the typical demand gen that everyone kinda thinks of when they think of marketing, I think of product marketing, product marketing team reports into me. Dave [0:11:16]: But then there’s a corporate marketing bucket. Dave [0:11:18]: And I think it’s part of your job as CMO head of marketing to also build the valuation of the company. Dave [0:11:24]: And stuff like that, Tb VPn. Dave [0:11:27]: I’m leaving for can tomorrow. Dave [0:11:29]: That’s a huge industry tent pool, but, you know, yes, their CMO is walking around. Dave [0:11:34]: Yes, there’s a little bit of demand gen component, part of that is definitely mystery beating kinda evaluation. Amit [0:11:41]: But don’t you think this those things anyway, don’t those end up helping in the demand gen side? Amit [0:11:45]: Any Like, if I’ve always had this argument? Amit [0:11:47]: It’s, like, if more people know who you are, and you’re just out there more like, you’re gonna… Amit [0:11:52]: Your baseline of inbound is going to be higher. Dave [0:11:55]: Well, I mean, this… Dave [0:11:55]: I have this conversation about Tv all the time. Dave [0:11:58]: Right? Dave [0:11:58]: If I said you could save fifteen percent on your car insurance you already know what brand I’m talking about, and you’re not in market for car insurance right. Amit [0:12:08]: And my son is home today. Amit [0:12:09]: He’s six. Amit [0:12:09]: He would know that. Amit [0:12:10]: He would tell you that Geico. Amit [0:12:11]: He would know the lizard. Amit [0:12:12]: You know? Dave [0:12:14]: So, I mean, this is kinda getting into the brand and performance, type of conversation, but absolutely, I mean, part of corporate marketing it’s building your brand. Amit [0:12:22]: Yeah. Amit [0:12:22]: But on the brand, what we’ll… Amit [0:12:23]: I’d I have some other stuff wanna to come about you. Amit [0:12:25]: But just because we’re talking about right now. Amit [0:12:26]: On the brand and performance thing, though, people that are listening to this, they often like to you know, they like to bucket thing. Amit [0:12:32]: Okay. Amit [0:12:32]: Well, I’m… Amit [0:12:33]: Tell me how much of my budget should be spent here or there or time there. Amit [0:12:36]: Is there something you think about is, like, when brand things happen, you go and do them Like, the the demand gen stuff like we have a budget. Amit [0:12:43]: We would need this much traffic with these meant many leads. Amit [0:12:45]: We need this much conversion rate? Amit [0:12:46]: Some of the other stuff is harder to account for. Amit [0:12:49]: How do you plan for that? Amit [0:12:50]: How do you make sure you’re doing it? Dave [0:12:51]: Yeah. Dave [0:12:51]: So number one, you should be doing all of it. Dave [0:12:54]: Right? Dave [0:12:54]: It’s not an either or And I think where it gets into the it depends territory. Dave [0:12:59]: Right? Dave [0:13:00]: Is absolutely your budget. Dave [0:13:01]: It’s absolutely your goals. Dave [0:13:02]: It’s your stage of company, but I don’t think it’s ever too early to be building your brand, and you don’t have to be spending a ton to do that. Dave [0:13:10]: I like to think about it in terms of my own personal marketing for atari and B2B marketing as sometimes just even air covered for sales outreach. Dave [0:13:19]: You want people to have heard of you when someone’s reaching out or when they see you and they’re comparing you against a competitive set. Dave [0:13:28]: The other thing that kind of falls in this territory that we’re talking about is, I I’ve heard some of our clients say, hey, our ad ran during that college football game and my Cs. Dave [0:13:38]: My CEO’s phone lit up from investors from friends from they’re just general network. Dave [0:13:44]: And that we want to do that again solely for that reason. Dave [0:13:49]: The other ninety nine percent of their campaign, they’re absolutely looking at cost per acquisition. Dave [0:13:54]: Right? Dave [0:13:54]: But there are some things that are just good for building brand reputation? Amit [0:13:59]: And how do you… Amit [0:13:59]: How do you measure those things? Amit [0:14:00]: How do you know? Amit [0:14:01]: How can you tell Philippe that the reputation is improving? Dave [0:14:06]: I mean, look, there’s your classic share voice metrics. Dave [0:14:09]: There’s brand sentiment. Dave [0:14:10]: There’s stuff I think most of the listeners here know about how to measure your brand? Amit [0:14:17]: Are you doing all those things now? Amit [0:14:18]: Those are just part of your marketing machine? Dave [0:14:21]: Yeah. Dave [0:14:21]: I definitely look at, like, share a voice a little bit more. Dave [0:14:23]: I think there’s a lot especially in this space where people are… Dave [0:14:27]: Yeah, it’s a shiny new object, Ct tv, everyone’s talking about it. Dave [0:14:30]: There’s, like, a lot of analysts that kinda go around and and and we it kinda… Dave [0:14:34]: We get results of some of these reports or people are talking about what companies are top of the list. Dave [0:14:40]: I would say the the interesting part that’s happening in my world as it relates to just brand awareness is that… Dave [0:14:47]: And I think a lot of people can relate to us is like all of a sudden, everyone has floated the market with a Ct solution. Dave [0:14:53]: And so it used to be at least when, you know, I first joined chi atari. Dave [0:14:57]: There was, like, one of three companies you would think about working with if you were gonna do Tv advertising. Dave [0:15:03]: Now it seems like everyone whether you’re a direct mail company, mobile Dsp, everyone says they can get you on Ct tv. Dave [0:15:09]: And so there’s, like, a lot of nuance to that statement. Dave [0:15:12]: I mean, you can get sushi at a gas station. Dave [0:15:14]: Right? Dave [0:15:14]: It doesn’t mean you should do it. Dave [0:15:16]: I find myself having to actually educate people on Tv in my marketing. Dave [0:15:23]: Before I ever talk about a feature or benefit of working with Atari. Dave [0:15:28]: And I have to remind my team a lot of. Amit [0:15:30]: I’ve always said this is… Amit [0:15:31]: That’s the best B2B marketing playbook, at least in my opinion is, like, to be the number one source of knowledge, regardless of if someone’s gonna buy for you or not. Amit [0:15:40]: Like, how can my brand be the resource people turn to and learn from, and then they… Amit [0:15:45]: Even if they decide to buy somewhere else, and I think it’s a very old school way of, like, no, we’re only We’re not helping you. Amit [0:15:51]: We’re only gonna help the people who are gonna buy our thing. Amit [0:15:53]: It’s like, I I use the example of like, Hubspot for me is, like a junior marker all the time. Amit [0:15:57]: I had to present a budget plan or a marketing plan for the first time. Amit [0:16:00]: I had no idea what I was doing. Amit [0:16:02]: I’m like, twenty four years old, like, Google, you know, this. Amit [0:16:04]: I find a Hubspot you know, thing I’d copy it exactly put our stuff in and my boss was like, you little genius, and I’m like, yeah, You know no big Yeah. Dave [0:16:12]: I I look the the other part to this angle of, like, competition and and kinda maybe getting back to, like, marketing to marketers. Dave [0:16:21]: I feel like marketing is… Dave [0:16:23]: Kind a distant cousin to sales in ways where when you take a sales call, you know what’s happening. Dave [0:16:28]: Right? Dave [0:16:28]: Like, you know they’re qualifying you, you know, that they’re, like, trying to hit on your pain points. Dave [0:16:32]: It’s like, you know there’s a formula to what’s happening in that sales call. Dave [0:16:36]: I think it’s the same thing in marketing, where it’s, like, marketers respect, good marketing, and if you’re doing stuff for, like, you know, optimizing an open rate or whatever, you know, you’ve probably set yourself at a conference and saw, like, just, like a bad slide. Dave [0:16:48]: And thought about that. Dave [0:16:49]: Like, man, Bad. Dave [0:16:50]: Like, Ain’t gonna done that better. Dave [0:16:51]: Right? Dave [0:16:51]: Like, we’re just wired to think that way. Dave [0:16:53]: So I think what that… Dave [0:16:54]: What I’m really trying to articulate here is, like, there’s a sniff test with marketers, and you have to be extremely authentic and honest. Dave [0:17:01]: And in my world, I’m up against a competitor who’s got Ryan Reynolds. Dave [0:17:07]: As a spokesperson. Dave [0:17:08]: What I… Dave [0:17:09]: Maybe up until six months ago when it’s kinda semi canceled, but what was like the most likable guy on the planet. Amit [0:17:15]: He was canceled. Dave [0:17:16]: I I hear. Dave [0:17:16]: I hear some things. Dave [0:17:17]: I look… Amit [0:17:18]: I’ll ask Claude after this. Amit [0:17:19]: Claude fuck club, Let me know. Amit [0:17:21]: Did Ryan Reynolds get canceled, but come back to me. Dave [0:17:24]: Look, I’m I’m up against other, like CEOs that are trying to be, you know, influencers and go viral and stuff in. Dave [0:17:29]: And so when I look at our marketing, I go, hey, how do we stand out amongst the c of all these new competitors, I think it’s actually making marketers the star. Dave [0:17:39]: And so, like, testimonials is not a new concept. Dave [0:17:43]: Right? Dave [0:17:44]: But I actually use marketers in my ads because I feel like if every month you’re seeing Brian Reynolds in an ad, whether that’s on Tv or digitally, but then you see me showing a different brand every month and their head of marketing talking about Atari, and we as marketers know. Dave [0:18:03]: How hard it is to get a case study. Dave [0:18:04]: I feel like this is what’s making us stand out. Dave [0:18:07]: So I will… Amit [0:18:08]: Well just feels real. Amit [0:18:08]: It just it just feels real and I think anybody that’s listening whether you market to marketers not or, you know, sell to cybersecurity or whatever. Amit [0:18:15]: You know, if you see… Amit [0:18:16]: The the Cis of this company uses this product. Amit [0:18:20]: You’re more likely to be like, oh, that seems legit. Amit [0:18:23]: I should go check this out. Amit [0:18:24]: The marketing person at this company. Amit [0:18:26]: That that’s a real person That’s… Amit [0:18:28]: You’re you’re just competing with it the Ryan Reynolds angle is they’re competing on, like, entertainment or funny. Amit [0:18:34]: I think you have, like, many different plays that you can run and decide… Amit [0:18:39]: Like okay, We’re gonna win on the, like, ingredients and facts, and we’re gonna… Amit [0:18:42]: You know, I think that’s a good approach I like that. Dave [0:18:44]: Yeah. Dave [0:18:44]: Proof points. Dave [0:18:44]: I mean, this is not revolutionary by any means. Dave [0:18:46]: But I will go in. Dave [0:18:48]: I I will send a camera crew to your office because I wanted to feel like your brand. Dave [0:18:51]: I will we will do a interview with you. Dave [0:18:54]: I will cut that up into a three minute case study, but then I’ll cut it up into a fifteen second and a thirty second, and I will run it on Tv. Dave [0:19:01]: I will do that. Dave [0:19:02]: Through linear through streaming through it. Amit [0:19:04]: Well, the whole thing is, like, how legit that seem. Amit [0:19:07]: So part of our community we run on this company called Circle, and they wanted to do where one of their top communities and they wanted to do a video shoot, and they said, Hey, Dave. Amit [0:19:17]: Can you give us an hour in Vermont. Amit [0:19:19]: We will fly to you. Amit [0:19:21]: We’ll bring the whole people. Amit [0:19:22]: Bring everybody there? Amit [0:19:23]: And I was like yeah, How Gonna I say, no that? Amit [0:19:25]: I don’t really have anything they’re gonna do it. Amit [0:19:27]: And it was amazing. Amit [0:19:28]: Like, the the it was so high end it even though I was doing them a favor by being in the video, was, like, if you curate that whole thing and you make it feel super legit. Amit [0:19:36]: I ended up, like, posting a bunch of the clips after, I looked really nice that day. Amit [0:19:40]: They gave me a bunch of the photos, Like, I don’t I didn’t care that I’m basically just being in an ad for them. Amit [0:19:44]: It was, like, they made it easy for me as opposed to, hey, can you send us a video like that. Amit [0:19:49]: That’s a great way to do that, especially your, you know, your level of marketing. Dave [0:19:52]: Yeah. Dave [0:19:52]: Yeah. Dave [0:19:53]: I I’ll I’ll involve our Cs team. Dave [0:19:55]: They will, you know, hey, here’s the story. Dave [0:19:57]: Here’s the thing that really stands out. Dave [0:19:59]: Here’s like, prep doc and, you know, make it super easy for them to just show up and be the talent. Amit [0:20:04]: Alright. Amit [0:20:04]: Tell me about Tv. Amit [0:20:05]: Let’s let’s teach these markers. Amit [0:20:06]: So one of the things people like about our content and our stuff is we teach them how to do something new how to get better at something. Amit [0:20:13]: You’re an expert in Ct tv. Amit [0:20:16]: Let’s start at the top. Amit [0:20:17]: What is this… Amit [0:20:18]: Explain this channel for people in the in the simplest terms. Amit [0:20:21]: So the average person listening this is, you know, director of marketing at a B2B manufacturing company in Ohio doing, you know, sixty eight million dollars in revenue, They’re doing all the other channels, but they need new ideas. Amit [0:20:33]: I need they need new channels, They wanna do something else other than spend more money on Adwords. Dave [0:20:38]: I’ll start at the top here and, like, I am going to explain just the landscape of what there is. Dave [0:20:44]: And the truth is there is probably something different for everybody. Dave [0:20:47]: But if you think about this in terms of a pie chart. Dave [0:20:51]: Alright? Dave [0:20:52]: And we’re just gonna talk viewership right now, and then we’ll talk about of, like, where the actual money goes for ad spend. Dave [0:20:58]: Imagine a pie chart and it’s split in half. Dave [0:21:00]: Half of the country is actually still watching, you commonly refer to as cable. Dave [0:21:05]: Right? Dave [0:21:06]: And that’s linear or broadcast. Dave [0:21:08]: And the other half is watching streaming. Dave [0:21:11]: And so a lot of people refer to that as, you know, Ct tv. Dave [0:21:15]: And so that’s one thing to just kinda understand that those are the two buckets. Amit [0:21:21]: By the way, is there any data? Amit [0:21:22]: I’m just curious, like, where would you… Amit [0:21:24]: If I go to my parents house, even they, they’re on all the streaming. Amit [0:21:28]: You know, They… Amit [0:21:29]: They’re on the Roku. Amit [0:21:30]: We’re on the Youtube Tv? Amit [0:21:31]: Do you have any like, market sizing, you know, guard rails? Amit [0:21:35]: Like, should I worry about traditional Tv or just worry about Ct tv? Dave [0:21:39]: Well, this is kinda where you get into, like, where are the ad dollars going? Dave [0:21:42]: So I’m gonna maybe it come back to that. Dave [0:21:44]: Dave, But, just to kinda explain a little bit about… Dave [0:21:47]: So the viewership side, there’s the… Dave [0:21:50]: There’s linear and they’re streaming. Dave [0:21:51]: Now, I may ask you, hey, if I’m watching a football game on Sunday through Youtube Tv. Dave [0:21:58]: Is that broadcast cable, what we call linear or is that stream? Dave [0:22:03]: Well, for answer, we’re all watching the same thing at the same time, seeing the same ads, and it’s being pumped through Abc b, Fox Cbs. Dave [0:22:13]: I think I’ve just given given you the answer. Dave [0:22:16]: It’s actually linear, but it’s delivered through an Ip app. Dave [0:22:21]: Right? Dave [0:22:22]: So Same thing goes for, like, Thursday night football on Amazon Prime. Dave [0:22:26]: Right? Amit [0:22:27]: But don’t I see local? Amit [0:22:28]: Don’t I see local ads though during those commercials too, though, like, you’re gonna see Bay Area commercials, I’m gonna see, you know, skiing commercials out here. Dave [0:22:37]: Sometimes, but most of the time and you probably just not maybe remembering this, but but this might trigger your memory when you see like, a moment of Zen brought to you by Youtube. Dave [0:22:45]: Oh, yeah. Dave [0:22:46]: Youtube. Dave [0:22:46]: Right? Dave [0:22:47]: Like, they’re covering up the actual local pod. Amit [0:22:49]: Oh, that’s what that is. Amit [0:22:50]: I’m like watching the you… Amit [0:22:51]: I’m watching the gulf. Amit [0:22:52]: And it’s, like, five, you know, two minutes as that. Amit [0:22:54]: I’m like, what is this is a wasted opportunity? Dave [0:22:57]: Yeah. Dave [0:22:57]: Yeah. Dave [0:22:57]: And so my point to this little anecdote is that the lines between linear and streaming are blurring because of how it’s delivered Now we… Dave [0:23:08]: As we start to get into this ads part of this conversation, just to double down on this, we had, like, nine brands that were in the major league baseball, like World Series. Dave [0:23:19]: Alright. Dave [0:23:20]: Even though you could watch that on streaming. Dave [0:23:23]: Those brands couldn’t get in with a streaming or Ct tv by, you actually had to buy that through the linear rep through the network. Dave [0:23:33]: Right? Dave [0:23:33]: So there is a difference between viewership and ads. Dave [0:23:37]: And then when you just… Dave [0:23:38]: As we get into ads here, you think about the total time of ad inventory, it would actually be very surprising to you. Dave [0:23:46]: Right? Dave [0:23:46]: Where you’re going? Dave [0:23:47]: While Netflix. Dave [0:23:48]: Everyone watches Netflix. Dave [0:23:49]: How much ad inventory is on Netflix same thing with Amazon Prime. Dave [0:23:53]: So that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Dave [0:23:56]: It just means don’t put all your eggs in one basket, one network on streaming app. Dave [0:24:01]: If you approach this just like any other channel, you would say trying to maximize all of it. Dave [0:24:07]: An example, I often give people, and this relates to programmatic, which I think a lot of providers are are out there. Dave [0:24:14]: If I said to you, hey, you know, we just started this company, here’s, million dollars, ten million dollars whatever we need a paid social strategy. Dave [0:24:21]: And you talked to an agency and they said, we can only buy Instagram reels. Dave [0:24:26]: You’d be like, well, I want snap, and I want Tiktok, and I want x. Dave [0:24:30]: I don’t know. Dave [0:24:31]: Right? Dave [0:24:31]: Like, I want all of social media. Dave [0:24:33]: I don’t want just one sliver of it. Dave [0:24:35]: That’s kinda of what happens when you’re buying Ct tv programmatic. Dave [0:24:39]: It’s about fifteen percent of what Tv is in terms of total ad inventory. Dave [0:24:45]: And so again, just kinda explaining that there’s a really wide landscape. Dave [0:24:49]: If you’re trying to reach the entire Tv audience. Dave [0:24:52]: Now B2B marketers It’s gonna depend on what type of company you are. Dave [0:24:56]: There is absolutely B2B brands running on the Super Bowl and and reaching a hundred twenty million people all at once. Dave [0:25:03]: There’s also brands, which I think is a no brainer every every listener should be doing this. Dave [0:25:08]: Retargeting your site visitors on Tv, and specifically Ct tv. Dave [0:25:14]: That is very cheap to do. Dave [0:25:16]: These are people who are potentially already familiar with their brand because it’s been to your website. Dave [0:25:20]: They may not have converted. Dave [0:25:21]: You may have segments on your website, like, I have segment for brands. Dave [0:25:26]: I’m a segment for agencies. Dave [0:25:27]: I might deliver a different message to those? Dave [0:25:29]: And that’s something you apply to your own website. Amit [0:25:32]: What makes it no brainer? Amit [0:25:34]: Is it just because I see you in multiple places and my brain thinks you’re everywhere or is there, like something else to it? Dave [0:25:40]: I mean, I think where else can you get fifteen to thirty uninterrupted seconds to tell your story, your product benefits, have someone, you know, a testimonial. Dave [0:25:52]: For me, I spent years telling advertisers you gotta make a creative that gets them to stop scrolling. Dave [0:25:59]: It’s thumb stopping creative. Dave [0:26:01]: You gotta have an offer or something in the first three seconds. Dave [0:26:04]: Right? Dave [0:26:05]: Like, this is kind of what you’re dealing with in the digital world you can be watching, you know, Love Island you know, at home. Amit [0:26:14]: I’m a summer house guy myself, actually. Amit [0:26:16]: Yeah. Dave [0:26:17]: Okay. Dave [0:26:17]: There you go. Dave [0:26:17]: You probably got, you know, a sixty inch Tv owner wall and Now you’ve gotta get a really relevant message that you can’t get? Amit [0:26:27]: And or is it also the economics of, like, retargeting those people is gonna be pretty cost effective. Dave [0:26:32]: Oh, yeah. Dave [0:26:32]: Extremely cheap. Dave [0:26:33]: This is stuff that you can do which we’re… Dave [0:26:35]: You know, we’re talking like fifty. Dave [0:26:36]: Fifty dollars a day. Amit [0:26:37]: Why is that? Amit [0:26:37]: What is it I’m an idiot. Amit [0:26:39]: But people leave me comments all the time. Amit [0:26:40]: What is it about, like, retargeting a website visitor that’s cheaper than if I just wanted to, like, you know, shotgun reach a bunch of people through Tv. Dave [0:26:49]: I mean, I think that’s actually it. Dave [0:26:50]: Right? Dave [0:26:50]: It’s the reach. Dave [0:26:51]: It is… Dave [0:26:52]: I am targeting a various. Dave [0:26:53]: Specific pool of visitors? Amit [0:26:56]: Oh, got it. Amit [0:26:56]: So so because you’re reaching down, like, I only wanna show this to these people that visited my site? Amit [0:27:01]: And is there some number that that’s meaningful there, does it have to be enough? Dave [0:27:05]: It’s say ten thousand unique monthly visitors? Amit [0:27:07]: Oh, wow. Dave [0:27:08]: It’s probably like, where you wanna be at? Amit [0:27:10]: We gotta put Exit Five on Tvs. Amit [0:27:11]: We’ve, like, thirteen thousand monthly visits. Amit [0:27:14]: Okay. Amit [0:27:15]: I I like it. Amit [0:27:16]: People aren’t people are listening to this. Dave [0:27:18]: Let’s just say you’re having an event in September that you’re trying to drive attendance to. Dave [0:27:22]: You wanna two share creative about… Dave [0:27:25]: That’s actually so true. Dave [0:27:26]: I’m sent it to Alison after this re target. Amit [0:27:29]: And that’s a good example because we already have the creative. Amit [0:27:31]: But my next question was gonna be. Amit [0:27:32]: Okay. Amit [0:27:32]: So, yeah, Cool. Amit [0:27:33]: We can re target through Ct tv, and I guess, I’m sure I’m sure this is why you’re talking about this, like, I’m sure you can do this in Tar, but I I don’t have any experience here so correct me from, but it seems like you can do this within Linkedin now, like, you know, just that platform on its own you can do it. Dave [0:27:48]: Lincoln’s great. Dave [0:27:48]: I mean, I like it’s kinda gold standard for B2B marketers in terms of the first party data. Dave [0:27:52]: Right? Dave [0:27:52]: The fact that you can do campaigns based on, like, title revenue size, stuff like that. Dave [0:27:57]: So I’m I’m not sure if they have a retargeting solution. Dave [0:28:00]: I think they might be a little bit more on the prospecting side. Dave [0:28:02]: But, yes, to answer your question like, there are a number of providers that can do retargeting for Ct tv. Amit [0:28:07]: But what what about the creator? Amit [0:28:08]: We have a hard enough time picking, like, compelling creative for our static Linkedin stuff. Amit [0:28:13]: We just do these super on brand things that don’t really convert well. Amit [0:28:16]: Don’t perform really. Amit [0:28:17]: Just look like ads. Amit [0:28:18]: Don’t I have to then your point. Amit [0:28:20]: Right You have to make a compelling. Amit [0:28:21]: If I have fifteen, how how am I gonna make a fifteen to thirty second video that is compelling, Like, what? Amit [0:28:26]: Any guidance on the creative there? Dave [0:28:28]: I think we can give lots of guidance of that… Dave [0:28:29]: And then it always comes back to your brand, your message. Dave [0:28:32]: Stuff like that, I would say in general. Dave [0:28:35]: Right? Dave [0:28:35]: Some of that advice we give, and this is also applies to B2B brands as well. Dave [0:28:40]: First of all, don’t discount your story, You know, why you exist. Dave [0:28:44]: Some of the highest performing type of format ads we have are just what we call founder ads. Dave [0:28:49]: It is the founder saying why you exist, the problem that you encountered, why you’re solving it, why you’re different. Dave [0:28:54]: Looking straight at camera. Dave [0:28:56]: We have a tutorial founder ad featuring philippe that does that same exact thing. Dave [0:29:01]: But as I mentioned earlier, I take video case studies, and I chop them up into fifteen thirty second ads. Dave [0:29:06]: So while I have a creative version that actually features one specific brand I also do mash ups. Dave [0:29:12]: Right? Dave [0:29:13]: So it’ll be, like four or five brands, talking about one specific thing, like maybe measurement and four or five credible people talking of talking about my product and something very specific that differentiates us. Dave [0:29:25]: I would say, a lot of people for some reason, not that it’s crazy, but they figure out what really resonates with people on social, and then they come to Tv and for some reason, assume they have gotta do something completely different. Dave [0:29:37]: It’s like, I gotta put my big boy pants on because I’m going to Tv, And sometimes that is warranted, and it’s like, yeah, We’re gonna be doing college football placements, you know, or Nfl or something, you know, I won’t be in the Nba finals, and I wanna show up a different way. Dave [0:29:51]: Go for it. Dave [0:29:52]: But you found what works, you know, take that to Tv as well. Amit [0:29:56]: Hopefully. Amit [0:29:56]: Yeah. Amit [0:29:57]: If you have organic or or just even just in our… Amit [0:29:59]: In that example, I just made this no first off. Amit [0:30:01]: We actually have a bunch of video content from drive. Amit [0:30:05]: It would be pretty easy to come up with, like, thirty second little highlight reel, and that could be a v one of what we would use to to re target. Amit [0:30:14]: You know? Amit [0:30:14]: I would if I’m really gonna do it though, I wanna, like, I wanna go for it. Amit [0:30:18]: I wanna, like, remember, like, the Will it Blend video, like, videos or, like, you need something. Amit [0:30:23]: Like, sham wow. Amit [0:30:24]: I wanna get you. Amit [0:30:24]: If gonna get you on Tv. Amit [0:30:26]: I wanna, like, put a handgun in a blender and, you know, see if that works everything think. Dave [0:30:30]: I mean, but that’s also the beauty of kinda where Tv has gone from, you know, over the past decade is you can test creative it. Dave [0:30:37]: The same way you would on digital. Dave [0:30:38]: You can, you know, run through four or five of them. Dave [0:30:41]: And you should always be trying to beat your best performing creative. Amit [0:30:45]: And do you have a school of thought around, like, having an offer and you know, because if you listen to podcast podcasts, you watch shows. Amit [0:30:53]: It’s like, there’s all, you know, the Og was, like, you know, stamps.com, and there’s a promo code and a discount, but, I’m just trying to use a B2B example to be related. Amit [0:31:02]: Okay? Amit [0:31:02]: You mentioned a Super Bowl commercial. Amit [0:31:04]: Right? Amit [0:31:04]: Nobody runs None of the B2B brands, like, not none of them, but most them don’t have an offer. Amit [0:31:09]: It’s usually just a brand thing or I had the VP marketing, Ryan, who from rip. Amit [0:31:14]: That’s a… Amit [0:31:15]: They sell the Hr. Amit [0:31:16]: They a Super Bowl ad. Amit [0:31:17]: I don’t think it was, like, saved ten percent on rip today. Amit [0:31:20]: But without an offer, does it make it harder to track? Amit [0:31:23]: How do you think about having an offer and then what you’re trying to drive? Amit [0:31:26]: Is it direct response? Amit [0:31:27]: Is it show lots of ads over time and then look at it after? Amit [0:31:30]: How do you think about it? Dave [0:31:32]: I think you’re thinking about this throwing away? Dave [0:31:33]: Like, what is our goal here? Dave [0:31:34]: Are we building brand? Dave [0:31:35]: Or we try and drive direct response. Dave [0:31:37]: I think you can have a call to action and it doesn’t need to be an offer? Dave [0:31:40]: You know, on on our end cards? Dave [0:31:42]: I think it’s atari.tv/growth and we land you on our other case studies. Dave [0:31:49]: We want you to see the proof points or watch the full case study that I just gave you fifteen seconds of. Dave [0:31:55]: And that still is driving the behavior we want. Dave [0:31:58]: We are driving you to or site. Dave [0:31:59]: We’re driving you two proof points. Dave [0:32:01]: We can obviously drive you to just a landing page where we want you to to schedule a demo. Dave [0:32:05]: So I don’t think you have to have an offer in there. Amit [0:32:08]: Is there a way to, like, plot all of the touch points because I also figure, like, we see with our podcast sponsors who who Sponsor our podcast and do so over months. Amit [0:32:17]: It’s not direct response, but then people feel like they’re hearing about them through us more. Amit [0:32:22]: I wonder if there is there some element of Tv also where just another touch point. Amit [0:32:25]: Like, to your point about retargeting website visitors. Dave [0:32:28]: Call, I mean, we call it the halo effect Amit [0:32:30]: surround sound? Dave [0:32:31]: Yeah. Dave [0:32:31]: We see making this number up, but it feels like ninety percent of our clients will turn around and say after their first Tv campaign that all of their other channels are doing better. Dave [0:32:40]: Their quality scores are better. Dave [0:32:42]: Their click throughs, conversions are are better. Dave [0:32:44]: And they bring us the data that is in our case studies where it’s like, twenty five percent increase in branded search. Amit [0:32:51]: Over the time that you’re running in? Amit [0:32:52]: That makes sense. Amit [0:32:53]: Okay. Amit [0:32:54]: What else do people listening to this need want to know If I’m in the car right now. Amit [0:32:57]: I’m like, Dave You gotta asking this about Tv. Amit [0:33:00]: What we should be doing? Dave [0:33:01]: Well, I I think when I was thinking about this podcast and and looking at the previous episodes, Claude told me that, I think maybe the past four or five episodes were all about Ai. Dave [0:33:11]: And we probably deserve an award for getting this far in this without saying. Amit [0:33:16]: I mentioned Cloud, like, three times. Dave [0:33:17]: So. Dave [0:33:17]: Yeah. Dave [0:33:18]: You’re You’re right. Amit [0:33:19]: Well, no. Amit [0:33:19]: My new thing is now I was like, remember how in Covid, it was, like, in these unprecedented times. Amit [0:33:24]: Sun unprecedented. Amit [0:33:25]: And print now it’s, like, in the world of Ai. Amit [0:33:27]: And we’re trying to like, we do two webinars a month and we’re always, like, writing the copy for them, and they’ve all been recently, like, see how… Amit [0:33:34]: You, learn about… Amit [0:33:35]: Learn how to do demand gen in the world of Ai. Amit [0:33:37]: Learn how to do product marketing in the world of Ai. Amit [0:33:40]: I’m, like, we gotta stop that. Dave [0:33:42]: We were on the topic of creative? Dave [0:33:44]: And I think this is usually where people’s mind floats when you were saying, like, how do I make a commercial and and and video and naturally, I think people start thinking about Ai generated video. Dave [0:33:55]: And maybe the cost of production and time of producing some of this creative has changed. Dave [0:34:02]: And we have had clients who have had one hundred percent Ai creative And so, you know, examples might be, like, green light, the kids debit card or delicious, which is like, a a vietnamese ph, ka, I think is probably one Most people know of, you know, like, the betting app And I can’t say that, oh, this is Ai generated creative performs significantly better or significantly worse. Dave [0:34:31]: It’s just too real early. Dave [0:34:33]: Right? Dave [0:34:33]: To, like, have some sort of determination on on that. Dave [0:34:37]: What I would say is it’s affecting the industry and helping marketers is that production time. Dave [0:34:43]: So, like, in the case of, you know, green light, it was, hey, this this shoot would have cost millions of dollars if we wanted to, like, build a set that did this concept. Dave [0:34:54]: We could do parts of this with Ai. Dave [0:34:58]: And in the malicious case, like, he’s running a sequential story and, like, kinda tying into parts of the year. Dave [0:35:06]: Like, I think he had out kinda Halloween themed creative and, like, just kinda continues the story. Dave [0:35:11]: So I do think it’s real. Dave [0:35:13]: I do think it’s it’s part of it, But then you gotta now think about the consumer sentiment side of this. Dave [0:35:18]: We actually ran a survey to our own clients and asked them, like, do you plan on doing Ai creative? Dave [0:35:25]: Or, you know, if you have, or are you good more, I think the jury is still out on how people are reacting to it and back to what I said earlier, Right? Dave [0:35:34]: When you’re marketing to marketers and I appreciate good marketing. Dave [0:35:37]: I think there’s sentiment like that with consumers as well. Amit [0:35:41]: Yeah. Amit [0:35:41]: There’s a weird thing. Amit [0:35:42]: Like, you know that Puerto Rico song that’s gone viral. Amit [0:35:44]: You know that one? Dave [0:35:45]: I don’t think so. Amit [0:35:47]: Off have to play it. Amit [0:35:47]: I don’t know if I I don’t wanna get this taken down, but I’ll I’ll drop it to, but… Amit [0:35:50]: It’s like this Tiktok trend and the song is about Puerto Rico and it’s gone completely viral, and it’s very catchy. Amit [0:35:57]: It’s insanely catchy, but I played it. Amit [0:35:59]: For my wife and she’s like, oh my god. Amit [0:36:02]: What type… Amit [0:36:02]: It sounds like a eighties like Bop. Amit [0:36:04]: Right? Amit [0:36:04]: But then I’m like, and it was made by Ai, and she’s like, no. Amit [0:36:07]: And it’s like, it’s this weird thing with humans I think that we’re navigating right now? Amit [0:36:11]: It’s not… Amit [0:36:12]: It’s like, sometimes you can’t tell a difference, But once you know, it changes how you feel about it for some reason, which I think is an interesting thing to explore. Amit [0:36:19]: Like, I if I find out, like, Drake ice man was actually not actually him as a hundred percent Ai generated. Amit [0:36:25]: I’d be pissed. Dave [0:36:26]: Yeah. Dave [0:36:26]: I think… Dave [0:36:27]: I think the jury is still out. Dave [0:36:31]: I think it it think it helps you move faster. Dave [0:36:33]: I think you should try it, but I don’t… Dave [0:36:35]: I also don’t think you need to be intimidated like, with, like, I need to do a hundred thousand dollar shoot. Dave [0:36:40]: And B2B, I think you can help you especially people saying, you know, product shots and trying to swap things out. Amit [0:36:46]: Yeah. Amit [0:36:46]: Let’s, like, let’s be honest. Amit [0:36:47]: Your job is a marketer. Amit [0:36:48]: Your job is to drive revenue for the company. Amit [0:36:50]: You have to do a lot of things, and you don’t always have actors and designers. Amit [0:36:55]: Like, I think you… Amit [0:36:56]: However you feel about Ai, like, I’m separating that. Amit [0:36:58]: As a marketer. Amit [0:36:58]: Give me that. Amit [0:37:00]: I can, like, write prop… Amit [0:37:01]: I mean, we we did a webinar a couple months ago and with the team at eleven labs, and they just showed some of the cool stuff that you can do with video and voice and creative and tap into, you know, other markets without having to get translations done, and it’s like, that’s an amazing tool. Amit [0:37:15]: It’s like, having the Internet. Amit [0:37:17]: But forcing yourself to do a britney, you know, be in person or something. Amit [0:37:21]: I don’t know. Dave [0:37:21]: The other thing just on the landscape side of things if you’re gonna think about Tv. Dave [0:37:24]: Look, you have to think about measurement, I would say you wanna look for partners that focus on incremental. Dave [0:37:31]: I think view through as a metric is kind of the standard. Dave [0:37:34]: And I think that’s in Tv. Dave [0:37:37]: That’s the almost the version that’s very close to last click. Dave [0:37:39]: And I think most marketers don’t think last click is is very effective. Dave [0:37:43]: So I just want everyone to know that that’s possible. Dave [0:37:46]: Like, you can track. Dave [0:37:48]: It’s typically using an Ip address. Dave [0:37:50]: It’s closed loop. Dave [0:37:51]: You know that the person saw your ad, and then they took an action because of Tv. Dave [0:37:57]: Not because it was the last thing that they saw. Dave [0:37:59]: You can be running other campaigns alongside that. Amit [0:38:03]: Okay. Amit [0:38:03]: A personal question for you. Amit [0:38:04]: What… Amit [0:38:04]: You’ve done well? Amit [0:38:05]: You’ve done, you know, this is your fourth or fifth marketing job. Amit [0:38:08]: Do you got a good thing going? Amit [0:38:09]: What keep you motivated and interested and engaged now as a Sv of marketing, like, what gets you fired up to go into work every day? Dave [0:38:19]: I still get to try cool things, you know? Amit [0:38:21]: Like, your your whole… Amit [0:38:22]: Your whole job isn’t people management? Dave [0:38:24]: No. Dave [0:38:24]: Definitely. Dave [0:38:25]: There is a good chunk spent on that. Dave [0:38:27]: I think we all know spending time and one on one’s is removing blockers and, you know, making sure people are set up for success, building bench strength is all an important part of leading a marketing team. Dave [0:38:38]: But I think least in a situation that I’m in now, we get to try new things all the time, And I think that’s what still makes marketing exciting. Dave [0:38:47]: I’m gonna go back to an old school tactic here right now, but, like, I’ve never done a billboard. Dave [0:38:52]: I’m doing a billboard and can, and I’m so curious. Amit [0:38:55]: Oh, I was gonna ask you what your plan for can? Amit [0:38:57]: You a hat do you one of those hats? Amit [0:38:58]: You have like a nice like hat? Amit [0:38:59]: Like, a, south the France hat? Dave [0:39:01]: No. Dave [0:39:01]: Now you’re now you’re making gonna feel like I should have Amit [0:39:03]: had one. Dave [0:39:03]: Gotta go Could Amit [0:39:04]: you know what Can you picture that… Amit [0:39:06]: Yeah. Amit [0:39:06]: Yeah. Dave [0:39:07]: But, you know, like, I I’ve never done something like that, we’re gonna, like, kinda be fun and Amit [0:39:11]: what’s on the billboard? Dave [0:39:12]: So when I was talking earlier about how a lot of our competitors can really only access fifteen percent with the entire Tv market. Dave [0:39:21]: I’m showing up with a fun way to say that and actually. Dave [0:39:24]: And so I’m doing in the bunch of cool ways and physical ways and a bunch of different spaces, you know, at add add age space, the dig day space add Cool. Amit [0:39:34]: So so this is thing essentially especially just like they’re going. Amit [0:39:36]: There’s a big campaign you guys are doing there. Amit [0:39:38]: Is it… Amit [0:39:38]: Is it hard to get spots for creative? Amit [0:39:40]: Because it’s just, like everyone who’s spending money in this space is there? Dave [0:39:44]: Yes. Dave [0:39:44]: It’s it’s it’s hard and it’s… Dave [0:39:46]: It’s expensive. Dave [0:39:47]: But kinda just depends on what your goals are. Dave [0:39:49]: Right. Dave [0:39:50]: And I I said this is definitely a little bit more corporate marketing, but I do think it’s gonna turn some heads for some cms outs that are there too. Amit [0:39:56]: Nice. Dave [0:39:57]: Yeah. Dave [0:39:57]: I get to try these things. Dave [0:39:57]: I feel like marketing is constantly changing. Dave [0:39:59]: I mean, you you covered it all the time on your podcast. Dave [0:40:02]: Yeah. Dave [0:40:02]: You know? Dave [0:40:02]: And so definitely keeps it interesting. Dave [0:40:04]: I feel like one of the areas I didn’t focus on that I think was coming back to Bite me now is Seo. Dave [0:40:11]: And, you know, early days, like I mentioned, it was probably one of three companies you’d go to, if you’re gonna try Tv advertising. Dave [0:40:17]: Yeah, a search ad or a search result where someone’s got millions of dollars on the line, hundreds of thousands millions of dollars on the line to do Tv advertising was was probably not what was gonna win, you know, if I… Dave [0:40:29]: You’re the first person on the search result. Dave [0:40:31]: Now, the way people are searching right is through Ll, and you gotta be mentioned. Dave [0:40:35]: And so I feel like kinda having to go back and figure all that out. Amit [0:40:40]: Yeah. Amit [0:40:40]: But I keep… Amit [0:40:41]: I mean, I have a cool job because I talk to my job now Is just like talking to people like, you And it is. Amit [0:40:46]: It’s like… Amit [0:40:46]: It’s there’s two… Amit [0:40:47]: There’s two tracks. Amit [0:40:47]: It’s like, yes. Amit [0:40:48]: Things are moving fast and things are changing a lot, which is which is interesting. Amit [0:40:53]: But then also, I, if I look at the macro. Amit [0:40:55]: I’m like, well, that actually never… Amit [0:40:57]: That’s actually never changed. Amit [0:40:58]: It’s always been about standing out and being interesting, and I try to sprinkle that as, like, the through line in all of our content? Amit [0:41:06]: Like, don’t let how fast things are moving takeaway from, like, yeah, what are the what are the principles of how people make buying decisions Up my existential crisis, the fear is as, like, long as we have jobs. Amit [0:41:18]: The only thing I’m worried about is if it’s like, the company’s Ai agent is talking to the buyers, Ai agent and, like, a human doesn’t matter as long as humans are involved. Amit [0:41:28]: As long as you’re trying to sell to marketers who wanna, like, spend their Tv budget. Amit [0:41:32]: I think I know the right place to, you know, win their hearts in mind. Amit [0:41:35]: But if that goes away, I I think I’m gonna be driving, like, I’m gonna I already have a plan. Amit [0:41:41]: Yeah I’m gonna buy a fleet. Amit [0:41:42]: Yeah. Amit [0:41:42]: I’m gonna buy a fleet of, like, robo taxis here in Vermont, and they’ll just operate those, you know, own, like, you know, seven autonomous taxis and that’ll that’ll be my new job. Dave [0:41:51]: There you go. Dave [0:41:51]: Leading into what the new future looks like Amit [0:41:54]: who’s going in a bunch of team. Amit [0:41:54]: There’s is a team going for to to en just you. Dave [0:41:57]: Yeah. Dave [0:41:57]: Most of the executive team. Dave [0:41:58]: Ken is an interesting place because it it just feels like it’s mostly strategic meetings that you’re spending your your time doing. Dave [0:42:05]: There is a lot of content and stuff going on, but it’s It’s… Dave [0:42:08]: There’s so much to compete with. Dave [0:42:10]: Like, I don’t I don’t wanna put someone on stage and then, like, Paris Hilton is dj at Meta beach and like, or the Kelsey Brothers are, you know, on state somewhere. Dave [0:42:20]: It’s, like, no one’s showing up to your thing. Amit [0:42:22]: It’s tough. Amit [0:42:23]: Yeah. Amit [0:42:23]: It’s tough. Amit [0:42:23]: Alright. Amit [0:42:25]: Well, it’s good to see you. Amit [0:42:26]: I hope you have a good time over there. Amit [0:42:27]: Safe travels. Amit [0:42:28]: Thanks for doing this. Amit [0:42:29]: And look, send us a note, so you can, you know, we’ll link Tom. Amit [0:42:31]: It’s Linkedin and everything. Amit [0:42:33]: But send us a note any more questions about Ct tv advertising on Tv. Amit [0:42:37]: We could we could cover that in a follow a a follow session. Amit [0:42:40]: I I think there’s this… Amit [0:42:41]: There’s a huge appetite. Amit [0:42:42]: I’ll leave you on this. Amit [0:42:43]: There’s a huge appetite. Amit [0:42:44]: I feel of people investigating the, kinda non core channels. Amit [0:42:49]: I guess Tv been a core channel, but everyone’s kinda, like… Amit [0:42:52]: I mean, you… Amit [0:42:52]: You’ve seen it in our in our CMO group. Amit [0:42:54]: So many people right now are questioning. Amit [0:42:56]: Should I be spending all this money on Adwords when, like, search is changing. Amit [0:43:00]: And so I think this is an interesting topic to explore where people are gonna spend money in the future marketing. Amit [0:43:04]: Alright. Amit [0:43:05]: Check him out, Tory even though he didn’t plug it, I will, because he’s a good guy. Amit [0:43:09]: Oh, last thing put you on the spot. Amit [0:43:11]: Do you have any lessons from B2B set. Amit [0:43:13]: Did anything about coaching high school across teach you anything about B2B sales? Dave [0:43:17]: This sounds like the worst cringe Linkedin I was ever. Amit [0:43:21]: That’s why that’s why I said it. Amit [0:43:22]: That’s why I said. Dave [0:43:24]: Oh, man. Dave [0:43:25]: Absolutely nothing. Amit [0:43:27]: Okay. Amit [0:43:27]: Alright. Amit [0:43:27]: Will, Andy. Amit [0:43:28]: Goodbye. Amit [0:43:28]: I’m not gonna… Amit [0:43:29]: I’m not gonna… Amit [0:43:30]: You know, you’re gonna can. Amit [0:43:31]: You can’t be answering low class questions like that on on your way out. Dave [0:43:35]: Appreciate it. Dave [0:43:39]: Hey. Dave [0:43:39]: Thanks for listening to this podcast. Dave [0:43:41]: If you like this episode. Dave [0:43:42]: You know what? Dave [0:43:43]: I’m not even gonna ask you future subscribe and leave a review because I don’t Amit [0:43:47]: really care about that. Dave [0:43:48]: I have something better for you. Dave [0:43:49]: So we’ve built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review, You go check it out right now on our website, exitfive.com. Dave [0:44:00]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing, and there’s no better place to do that than with us at Exit Five. Dave [0:44:07]: There’s nearly five thousand members now in our community People are in there posting every day, asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so seeking to have a peer group. Dave [0:44:24]: Or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest. Dave [0:44:28]: It’s a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free, and then there’s a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year. Dave [0:44:37]: Go check it out, learn more, exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.